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Old 12-24-2011, 01:19 PM   #43
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A good strong walking stick is very handy with animals, and can be a minor deterrent with humans who are just borderline about possibly initiating an attack on you. Also about as kid safe as anything.
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Old 12-25-2011, 07:00 AM   #44
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If you defend yourself, "YOU" become the perpetrator? WOW, that's a new one!!
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Old 12-25-2011, 07:39 AM   #45
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The first line of defense is to simply not be there when an incident occurs. My concern about boon docking in the south west is people. I would not boon dock alone. Day trip if you want to visit. Critters will likely leave you alone if you don't corner them, teach your kids out door etiquette. If you are unwilling to have the proper tools to address the threat, do not go.
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Old 12-25-2011, 08:45 AM   #46
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A little off topic but if but if camping in or around St. Louis you had best have a lot of Long range hornet/wasp jet spray.

The wife and I went to St. Louis last year we camped at Casino Queen just across the river I am sure we will not be camping around St. Louis again.

Good luck with you no Gun self defense.


Violent New Trend, 'Knock Out'

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/24/police-aim-to-crack-down-on-violent-new-trend-knock-out/#ixzz1hUKWDcYe

ST. LOUIS – Matthew Queen still struggles to piece together what happened after a trip to the grocery store nearly turned deadly. He remembers a group of loitering young people, a dimly lit street -- then nothing. The next thing he knew he was waking up with blood pouring out of his head.

The 51-year-old pizza kitchen worker's surreal experience happened just before midnight earlier this year, when he became another victim of what is generally known as "Knockout King" or simply "Knock Out," a so-called game of unprovoked violence that targets random victims.

Scattered reports of the game have come from around the country including Massachusetts, New Jersey and Chicago. In St. Louis, the game has become almost contagious, with tragic consequences. An elderly immigrant from Vietnam died in an attack last spring.

The rules of the game are as simple as they are brutal. A group -- usually young men or even boys as young as 12, and teenage girls in some cases -- chooses a lead attacker, then seeks out a victim.

Unlike typical gang violence or other street crime, the goal is not revenge, nor is it robbery. The victim is chosen at random, often a person unlikely to put up a fight. Many of the victims have been elderly. Most were alone.

The attacker charges at the victim and begins punching. If the victim goes down, the group usually scatters. If not, others join in, punching and kicking the person, often until he or she is unconscious or at least badly hurt. Sometimes the attacks are captured on cellphone video that is posted on websites.

"These individuals have absolutely no respect for human life," St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay said.
Slay knows firsthand. He was on his way home from a theater around 11:30 p.m. on Oct. 21 when he saw perhaps a dozen young people casually crossing a street. He looked to the curb and saw Quain sprawled on the pavement.

Slay told his driver to pull over. They found Quain unconscious, blood pouring from his head and mouth.

Quain was hospitalized for two days with a broken jaw, a cracked skull and nasal cavity injuries. He still has headaches and memory problems but was finally able to return to work earlier this month. Hundreds gathered in November for a fundraiser at the restaurant where he works, Joanie's Pizza, but he still doesn't know how he'll pay the medical bills.

"I don't remember much of what happened," Quain said. "I was hanging out with a friend, celebrating the Cardinals in the World Series. I went to the store and saw a group of kids who looked out of place, suspicious, but I shrugged it off. I got around to the library, and the next thing I remember is waking up on the corner with the mayor standing next to me. I tried to say `hi' but my jaw was broken."

It isn't clear how long Knockout King has been around, nor is the exact number of attacks known. The FBI doesn't track it separately, but Slay said he has heard from several mayors about similar attacks and criminologists agree versions of the game are going on in many places.

St. Louis Police Chief Dan Isom said the city has had about 10 Knockout King attacks over the past 15 months.

Experts say it is a grab for attention.

"We know that juveniles don't think out consequences clearly," said Beth Huebner, an associate professor of criminology at the University of Missouri-St. Louis. "They see something on YouTube and say, `I want to get that sort of attention, too.' They don't think about the person they're attacking maybe hitting their head."

Scott Decker, a criminologist at Arizona State, said the attacks are a modern extension of gang-like behavior -- instead of painting over another gang's graffiti as a show of toughness, they beat someone up and post a video on social media sites. The postings spur copycat crimes.

"It's adolescent and early adults, largely male, showing how tough they are. It's done to show off," Decker said.

Earlier this year in Chicago, a group of teens followed an elderly homeless man at a train station. One of the teens walked up to him and punched him in the face, knocking him out as the teen's friends laughed and mocked the man. The exchange was captured on video and posted on a hip-hop site, where it got about a quarter of a million views within two days. The teen was not arrested because police couldn't locate the homeless man to see if he wanted to press charges.

The crimes aren't limited to big cities. In 2009, Adam Taylor had just entered a parking garage in Columbia, Mo. Surveillance footage from the garage showed a group of teens following him. One of the teens attacked, punching Taylor and sending him crashing into a brick wall. A few seconds later, the others joined in, punching and kicking him as he lay on the ground. Taylor suffered bruising on the brain, whiplash and internal bleeding but survived.

Hoang Nguyen wasn't as fortunate.

The 72-year-old retired schoolteacher immigrated to St. Louis from Vietnam with his wife less than four years earlier to be near their daughter. The couple was returning to their apartment after walking to a grocery store on an April morning in broad daylight.

They took a shortcut through an alley, where they saw a group of young people approaching.

Suddenly, one of them charged. Hoang was attacked as he stepped in front of his wife to protect her. The attack went on as he begged for mercy, she told police.

Hoang died of massive injuries. Elex Murphy, 18, was charged with first-degree murder and allegedly told police the attack was part of the Knockout King game. His attorney declined to comment.

St. Louis authorities are going to the source to combat further attacks. A special police squad has been assigned to focus on Knockout King, and a city prosecutor is designated for the attacks. But Isom said equally important is an outreach effort to talk to students.

"Certainly we take this very seriously and we're making every effort to stop it," Isom said.

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Old 12-25-2011, 02:28 PM   #47
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Old 12-25-2011, 08:59 PM   #48
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This quote from Jayco1's excerpt says it all: " I went to the store and saw a group of kids who looked out of place, suspicious, but I shrugged it off." One's best defense is their intuition (gut feeling). That man ignored his and paid the price.
If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't; that means it is time to protect yourself. Within your parameters, this means if you want to keep your family safe you must stay away from those possibilities of danger you have clearly stated.
Any protection you carry on your person must be readily accessible and easy to use. If you don't carry it constantly you might as well not have it at all.This leaves your brain and instincts to protect your family. If you don't think your family is safe boondocking, why expose them?
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:05 PM   #49
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I have hiked in the outdoors for years by myself or sometimes with my Airedale. Most of the time I carry two euro style walking sticks which telescope out. For critters these work quite well. I have used them several times to move rattle snakes out of the way. I can tell you pepper spray does not work on most snakes. At least that is my experience. I do usually carry in my left pocket a small can of pepper spray or mace, and in the left pocket a sturdy "commando-type" folding knife. These three items should work well to defend against wildlife.

As far as human wildlife goes my recommendation is bear spray or the latest craze seems to be hornet spray. I would google self protection or self defense and you will get a bunch of companies offering many products.
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:40 PM   #50
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We're all born with that spidy sense, that tingling in the back of your neck. Over time as we get older we often rationalize what we are seeing as not being what it appears to be. This is the biggest reason people get themselves into a pickle. They don't trust their gut instinct or they think bad things happen to other people and never to me. I would never boondock alone without a defensive option, it makes no sense. Always be prepared for the unexpected. Be aware that goal oriented people can fight through pepper/capstan spray and most any other incapicitating instrument the untrained person might use. Its not like TV where a threat or a single strike will stop a person on a mission. Best advice is don't wander off alone and if it doesnt feel right dont try to rationalize your gut feeling away. Move on.
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Old 12-26-2011, 07:13 AM   #51
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Jayco1. My wife and I were planning on going to St. Louis and camping at the Casino Queen. What was the problem with the Casino Queen campground? Do you think the Arch area is safe? Thank you in advance for your input.
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Old 12-26-2011, 07:38 AM   #52
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As a Police officer I have seen more compliance from criminals when pointing a taser at them as a posed as a gun believe it or not. Keep in mind that the situation dictates the use of a gun over a taser. The criminal element knows that a taser will be used before a gun so when they see it they comply.

Taser makes a home defense version. You could also buy OC spray but keep in mind that people could fight through it. Good luck.
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Old 12-26-2011, 07:39 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkmoney
As a Police officer I have seen more compliance from criminals when pointing a taser at them as a posed as a gun believe it or not. Keep in mind that the situation dictates the use of a gun over a taser. The criminal element knows that a taser will be used before a gun so when they see it they comply.

Taser makes a home defense version. You could also buy OC spray but keep in mind that people could fight through it. Good luck.
Check local laws prior to purchasing any defense product.
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Old 12-26-2011, 08:43 AM   #54
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You must at all times trust your GUT FEELING’S this is what God gave you with out it all the gun’s and other things are worthless.

If you won’t to get yourself into trouble just be a good liberal and put your trust in someone else hand.

Now to answer your question about the Casino Queen campground as for the campground itself it is ok after you are in it. It is about the only campground close to the St. Louis you can stay in.

Again trust you Gut Feeling the campground is surrender by a 12 feet fence with razor wire on top it is guarded 24/7 you will not be allowed to walk form the campground to the Casino.

When you leave the Casino you will be given a ride back to the door of you camper and watched until you are in a close the door.

The wife and I had never been to St. Louis (we are in our 60’s) and we wonted to see the city you could see the Arch from the campground (we had be advised by sever on the net to not leave the campground which is in East St. Louis).

The train to the Arch ran next to the casino so we road the train to the city and a short walk to the Arch my Gut was not feeling good. Because we were going to the arch I did not have my gun all I have was a multitool with a knife and it was inspected by the guard but I was allowed to inter the Arch with it.

I will cut this short but I will never be back to St. Louis once was enough.

Do you think the Arch area is safe? My Gut was not Feeling good.



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Old 12-26-2011, 09:21 AM   #55
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I think the last time I checked the Casino Queen Casino RV charged $48/night. Don't go out of the complex when in. Can't carry a firearm in Illinois. I 'm 30 miles West from there but I drive down to Tunica and stay. $14/night usually comped and safer. I usually don't travel East of Hwy 270 anymore. Just not safe. I don't care how anybody else feels. Mexico can't be this bad.
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Old 12-26-2011, 09:28 AM   #56
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I think the last time I checked the Casino Queen Casino RV charged $48/night. Don't go out of the complex when in. Can't carry a firearm in Illinois. I 'm 30 miles West from there but I drive down to Tunica and stay. $14/night usually comped and safer. I usually don't travel East of Hwy 270 anymore. Just not safe. I don't care what anybody else feels, It's not worth taking a chance.

We send our troops over seas,sounds like we need to station them here in some locations.
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