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Old 12-28-2011, 07:52 AM   #71
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That's in Canada or England, not true in most of the US.
In my country's defense, all I'm going to say is we don't have a "St-Louis"... (or anywhere near) and pls don't say we're not as multi-cultural as I think ratios are pretty close.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:01 AM   #72
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I have lived in Arizona for 65 years and have boondocked all over the state. We have been avid outdoors people and camped with three children without incurring any attacks by wildlife be it human or animal. Contrary to some beliefs, snakes, coyotes, javalena and such are not randomly lying in wait to attack humans. The best defense is to give them an escape route and observe from a distance.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:21 PM   #73
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Stay home, simplest solution. If you do not wish to carry the appropriate equipment for a situation, then the safest solution is to not put yourself in an area where it may be needed.

Taking a quick look at the map of the surrounding area to Peoria, AZ, you're extremely close to the border and have the potential for running into illegal operations running out in the deep of the BLM areas. I do not recommend boondocking in any area near Peoria. You'd be better served going north up to southern Utah to reduce the potential for being in a situation that would call for the need of deadly force.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:23 PM   #74
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Stay home, simplest solution. If you do not wish to carry the appropriate equipment for a situation, then the safest solution is to not put yourself in an area where it may be needed.
Exactly
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:32 PM   #75
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You might as well just give into anybody that wants to harm or take your property because if you try to defend yourself, you are the perpatrator, not the victim anymore.



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Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
That's in Canada or England, not true in most of the US. It is true that you can't use deadly force to protect property in most state's, at least Texas is an exception.
Canada criminal code sections 34-37

34. (1) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.

(2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if
(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and
(b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm.

35. Every one who has without justification assaulted another but did not commence the assault with intent to cause death or grievous bodily harm, or has without justification provoked an assault on himself by another, may justify the use of force subsequent to the assault if
(a) he uses the force
(i) under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence of the person whom he has assaulted or provoked, and
(ii) in the belief, on reasonable grounds, that it is necessary in order to preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm;
( b) he did not, at any time before the necessity of preserving himself from death or grievous bodily harm arose, endeavour to cause death or grievous bodily harm; and
(c) he declined further conflict and quitted or retreated from it as far as it was feasible to do so before the necessity of preserving himself from death or grievous bodily harm arose.

36. Provocation includes, for the purposes of sections 34 and 35, provocation by blows, words or gestures.

37. (1) Every one is justified in using force to defend himself or any one under his protection from assault, if he uses no more force than is necessary to prevent the assault or the repetition of it.
(2) Nothing in this section shall be deemed to justify the wilful infliction of any hurt or mischief that is excessive, having regard to the nature of the assault that the force used was intended to prevent.

This of course will only apply when one is Rving in Canada.
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:30 PM   #76
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Drivinmyhome, I think you might try talking to some locals who understand you are asking for advise about critters not criminals. They might also tell you about the local area and not St. Louis or Canada. They may also respect your not wanting a gun and not try and impose it on you anyway. I guess my advise would be to use your common sense and gut feeling when taking your children on an outing and have fun. Don't stay home and hide from the world. There is too much good out there, just be careful and remember you bought your rig to enjoy as well as live in. Happy Travels.
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:45 PM   #77
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The hornet spray is a great idea, however, if you're up against a human adversary in possession of a firearm you're at a disadvantage, as the firearm has a longer range than 27'.

Good luck with your choice of a protective device
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:15 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsirby View Post
Drivinmyhome, I think you might try talking to some locals who understand you are asking for advise about critters not criminals. They might also tell you about the local area and not St. Louis or Canada. They may also respect your not wanting a gun and not try and impose it on you anyway. I guess my advise would be to use your common sense and gut feeling when taking your children on an outing and have fun. Don't stay home and hide from the world. There is too much good out there, just be careful and remember you bought your rig to enjoy as well as live in. Happy Travels.
If he wasn't in a state with major border issues and problems related to such, it would be an easier task. If he wasn't going into BLM areas, areas that are having issues with illegal drug production going on, in a high traffic state, this wouldn't be a problem.

But, sadly, he is in Peoria, AZ rather close to the Mexico/AZ border, and along with it brings an increased chance of human confrontation vs critter, especially if he stumbles on something by accident.

Me, I use snake loads for the regular 4 legged critters, but again, we fall back into the same problem.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:34 PM   #79
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As a retired wildlife biologist and law enforcement officer I have a few thoughts for you. Check the record, wildlife attacks are rare and then rarely fatal. More people are killed by bees then the critters you mentioned. Human predators are also rare in areas you want to go. All possible means of protection have draw backs and do have failure to perform issues. Most anything will dissuade any any animal that is not cornered or trying to protect young. Simply waving your arms and yelling works on most anything - maybe not snakes as they are deaf and do not always see so well. But you can out run any American snake. Sprays, mle weapons, and firearms have there place but are useless unless you are trained, have them readily available and have made the mental preparation to use them. As a note from personal experience, pepper spray will blind any attacker but only that, they still will continue hostilities. I and many others attempt to be fully prepared for many issues but most people are not and you will have to look far and wide to find RV'ers who have used or could have used these means to protect themselves or someone else. So to answer your question - forget the crossbow, pepper spray is a good option (watch the wind our you will be Temp blinded too ), or just watching your surroundings and go out and enjoy your family and this great land of ours.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:47 PM   #80
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I like flare gun’s.
And if you fire it inside your RV you can expect to lose the whole thing in the resulting fire.
And, as I said earlier, better check the laws on what is considered a concealed weapon in each state you go into. They are not legal to have in your vehicle in all states. In CA they might even be considered to be a short barrel shotgun, I know a Taurus Judge is, making them illegal there.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:52 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguyfromcalg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry White
You might as well just give into anybody that wants to harm or take your property because if you try to defend yourself, you are the perpatrator, not the victim anymore.





Canada criminal code sections 34-37

34. (1) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.

(2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if
(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and
(b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm.

35. Every one who has without justification assaulted another but did not commence the assault with intent to cause death or grievous bodily harm, or has without justification provoked an assault on himself by another, may justify the use of force subsequent to the assault if
(a) he uses the force
(i) under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence of the person whom he has assaulted or provoked, and
(ii) in the belief, on reasonable grounds, that it is necessary in order to preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm;
( b) he did not, at any time before the necessity of preserving himself from death or grievous bodily harm arose, endeavour to cause death or grievous bodily harm; and
(c) he declined further conflict and quitted or retreated from it as far as it was feasible to do so before the necessity of preserving himself from death or grievous bodily harm arose.

36. Provocation includes, for the purposes of sections 34 and 35, provocation by blows, words or gestures.

37. (1) Every one is justified in using force to defend himself or any one under his protection from assault, if he uses no more force than is necessary to prevent the assault or the repetition of it.
(2) Nothing in this section shall be deemed to justify the wilful infliction of any hurt or mischief that is excessive, having regard to the nature of the assault that the force used was intended to prevent.

This of course will only apply when one is Rving in Canada.
So, if I go to Canada and use a handgun or shotgun to defend myself it's OK? Remember, that self protection is not a reason for having a gun in Canada at least not for non Canadian citizens.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:55 PM   #82
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I have to admit I think the threat of critters is really small. I've spent many years in the West hiking, camping, back packing, boondocking. Always found the best defense to be aware, have a good walking stick and make yourself large and noisy (if you happen across a larger animal). Have come across rattlesnakes, coyotes, even a mountain lion and that was the technique that worked best. I really don't think you need much else. Sprays and such take too long to deploy unless you happen to have them in hand.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:39 PM   #83
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I read all the responses. Seems the recommendations are all over the spectrum.

Bottom line - do what you think is appropriate. If you need "protection", get something that will protect. Get the training that might be necessary.
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:23 AM   #84
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So, if I go to Canada and use a handgun or shotgun to defend myself it's OK? Remember, that self protection is not a reason for having a gun in Canada at least not for non Canadian citizens.
As a Canadian citizen you need an FAC (Firearms Acquisition Certificate) in order to acquire and or use and or transport firearms. With a regular FAC you can carry "regular" shotguns and rifles and with proper training & tests you can get an endorsement on your FAC for "restricted weapons" such as hanguns (minimum 4.1 inches). (I have such an FAC). Shotguns and rifles must be carried in an opaque case with a trigger lock. You need a "transport permit" to carry a restricted weapon (handgun) to and from a practice range (they can not be used for hunting). For more info see:
Possession and Acquisition Licence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As you can see, Canadians can't even think about using a firearm for protection (gun locked in a case, locked in the trunk...) I have heard that US citizens can't cross into Canada with firearms in their motorhome, they have to go in storage.
Even with such restrictions we fare pretty good in gun related deaths. Look at the following table and you will see that most gun related deaths in Canada are by suicide, not homicides...
List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I fully agree with an earlier post that if an area is deemed dangerous, govts should throw more police at it and even bring army in if necessary.
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