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Old 04-22-2019, 06:10 AM   #267
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Wait and see when his car batteries crap out and need replacing, you'll buy those cars dirt cheap. And the electronics in them will wear out and burn out as well, that is never cheap.
Tesla is not a major car manufacturer. If they went out of business tomorrow, they would not be required to supply parts for 10 years like the major manufacturers are.

This is what I have heard, I am no expert on the subject, I just play one on the internet.
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Old 04-22-2019, 10:04 AM   #268
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Now in Fairbanks

I am now in Fairbanks and have read all the new posts. The discussion has been very interesting and so many have contributed so much.



First: While interesting the Tesla Power Wall is not the question here and is not really relevant to the topic. But the discussion has been interesting.


It is curious that so many of the negative responses about EV's are based on dated or incorrect information. So this discussion is like being in a classroom where most of the kids "Get" the problem and the rest just don't.


The argument that is most fallacious is the; "Well if everyone did X then Y will happen..." This is known as the Law of Universality and it NEVER applies or is valid to anything. "Everybody" never does the same thing.



The other argument I find interesting is the idea that our Grid will not support a change to EV's. Really nothing could be more misleading. First with the huge numbers of homes that are now using solar and wind and SELLING power back to the power companies they are struggling to keep up with the falling demand and the extra power available...which some do not like having to pay for.


As a Utility infrastructure Power Transmission is one of the cheapest and easiest to build and the right of ways are already in place.


No the supply of power will not be a a major factor and it will grow and change as EV's grow in number and need more places to recharge.


The other argument I find completely off base is the:.. "EV's are being built and foisted on us by Government subsidies. No industry has received more subsidies and Bailouts than the auto industry almost from it's beginning, except farming. Big oil benefits from many generous and complex subsidies to produce oil. So complaining so vociferously about the small subsidies that the EV manufacturers have gotten is misplaced.


EV's are popular because they are great cars, real "Drivers Cars" that also appeal heavily to the Environmentally concision and those that see the writing on the wall about oil. Part of the kids who "Get this" are those that own EV,s who have responded here.


As I wrote previously Tesla alone has eaten the lunch of the big 3 luxury car sales. The legacy Car manufacturers are now awake and working hard to catch up...that is their history to almost every change and challenge.


Take the time to read ANY of the major CAR Magazines and you will see what the experts think of these cars. They love them and they "Get It".


Now some are arguing that EV's wont make any difference to the environment and will actually pollute more! At the rate we are changing from oil and coal power generation to clean power generation Non polutting cars will be powered by non polluting sources of power generation. It wont be 100% but it WILL be very significant.


Further, If we replace only 50% of current vehicles with electrics it will have ground shaking changes. We will have a glut of oil, which will get far cheaper, making shipping and air travel cheaper and making the US completely independent on imported oil and free us from the failed policies based on Oil in the world.



I agree that Aircraft and Ships will not become alternatively powerd certainly in my lifetime. But in the mean time the less oil we use for cars the cheaper the oil gets for other uses. Further when we get to the inflection point where EV's are dominant we will be in far better environmental shape and will have bought us time to work on how to power other things more efficiently and cleanly.


I admit that there are issues, well argued here, about battery disposal as an environmental concern. However meeting that challenge will be FAR FAR easier than trying to deal with how to clean up our air. Technology is constantly moving and there will be a big economic incentive to find solutions to battery recycle/disposal.


To return to RV's: Most trips are about 200 to 300 miles a day to ones destination or length of drive time. I tend to do much more than that. So I don't see a big disconnect that some do about the acceptance based on range. The largest RV per capita market is California where the vast majority of places to go are within a 300 mile range. I predict as in the past it will be Californians that set the pace here in regards to acceptance of EV RV's.


It is clear from the current state of EV technology that the first EVRV's will be the light truck chassis which serves the pickup market and class c and b's.


The EV Class A change will be most likely driven by the Electric Bus technology not class 8 trucks. Mostly because the loads are more equal. that technology is far advanced already so it may not be as far in the future as some think.


Change is hard for some others embrace it yet others still resist and resist until they are like an insect in amber caught with a vehicle they will never unload.



And what will happen with all the gas and diesel powered vehicles that are still here and running? They will remain until they die out a natural death. Many I think will be exported as used vehicles to developing countries. Mostly those that have huge tariffs on the import of New cars. So never fear your minivan will find a good home.
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:27 PM   #269
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This is just my opinion. I’ve never believed that attempting to marginalize others who have differing views or condescension are conducive to a rational discussion on any topic.

We know electrical cars can provide suitable transportation for some. The topic of this thread is electric powered RV’s and why the industry has been slow to adopt this technology. There have been many valid explanations as to why.

Perhaps a more meaningful question to ask would be, Once electric RV’s, or even electric cars, gain a majority of the market, with the desired goals have been achieved?

Technology and money allow us to do some remarkable things, like sending a car into orbit. I’m on the fence about that, but leaning toward: It didn’t do anything to improve life on Earth.
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:51 PM   #270
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This is just my opinion. I’ve never believed that attempting to marginalize others who have differing views or condescension are conducive to a rational discussion on any topic.

We know electrical cars can provide suitable transportation for some. The topic of this thread is electric powered RV’s and why the industry has been slow to adopt this technology. There have been many valid explanations as to why.

Perhaps a more meaningful question to ask would be, Once electric RV’s, or even electric cars, gain a majority of the market, with the desired goals have been achieved?

Technology and money allow us to do some remarkable things, like sending a car into orbit. I’m on the fence about that, but leaning toward: It didn’t do anything to improve life on Earth.

I wasn't condescending or marginalizing. I was simply pointing out what many can see from some posts. That some here understand where the technology is at present and some don't. Those that do not are laboring under misconceptions years old in some cases.


Those that claim that EV technology is not ready for prime time in my OPINION are either not well informed or well read on the subject. The Facts are there. Now if you want to argue whether the issue of battery reclaim/recycle/disposal is going to be a major factor, THAT certainly is still debatable. If you want to quibble over infrastructure construction timelines, that's a valid point. But the misinformation expressed so often here about range, reliability and recharge times points to the fact that we are divided by an information and "Fact" gap. Which is what I was addressing in my previous post.


Consider this:



The AVERAGE commute for Americans is 26 to 29 minutes each way. In mileage terms that works out to a little over 16 miles. Thus the average American could use any EV on the market right now.



Over 76% of Americans commute to work alone in their cars. Another 9% carpool. Counting 150 million Americans working that equates to 115 MILLION cars and trucks on the road for commuting EACH DAY. (Source :Brookings Institute)



Americans consume 142.86 BILLION gallons of gasoline each year. (Source EIA US Energy Information Admin.)


So if only 40% of those cars were EV's we would save 57.1 BILLION gallons of fuel per year.



Now I don't know what goals you are referring to but if your goal is to reduce carbon emissions, use less fossil fuels, help global climate change and free the US from a Foreign Policy twisted by our demand for oil then I think you are certainly well on your way even before EV's become dominant in the marketplace.


And yes many valid explanations for the RV industry's slowness to respond to this market change have been expressed. (Many by myself) But also a great number of misleading and outdated, technologically questionable explanations have also been proffered here. It was those I was addressing.



I also think there is a whiff of Anti Elon Musk sentiment lurking under the surface of some posts. And unfortunately it is possible that some are letting that skew their otherwise sound judgement on this issue.


But there is more at stake for the RV industry. As we move to a more environmentally conscious state of mind as a new generation adopts EV's (and there is no doubt they will) RV manufacturers will be forced to look to smaller more energy efficient, aerodynamic, less polluting products at all levels. My contention is they should be planning and designing for that NOW and they are not. The argument over whether a Class A will have enough range may be totally moot as no such thing (in it's present form) may exist.



I think that juncture is years off but it surely will come to pass.
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:35 AM   #271
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This thread is closed. On 4/17 a thread warning was made asking members to stay on topic, yet very few of the posts from the last week have anything to do with Electric RVs. Discussion of general government policy concerning renewable energy is not a topic for a forum dedicated to RVs and RVing. Thanks to those who participated and stayed within the forum rules.
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