Community Forums

rarebear.nm · 04-12-2019, 12:00 PM

Dav- Thanks for the point.

What I was trying to say, but failed, was in the semis being tested I think one company is assembling all of the parts from what ever sources and makes sure the final product is working as a whole (tractor and trailer). Whereas in the RV industry an RV maker could order an autonomous driving chassis to build on but they would not be able to ensure that system would work when an end user hitches who knows what to the rear and takes off.

Think about an autonomous pickup hitching to some older 5th wheeler and a toy trailer in double tow and try to find insurance for that!

I think most things we buy are just assemblages of parts and supplies provided by a range of sources/suppliers.

vermilye · 04-12-2019, 12:27 PM

My ideal electric RV would be one that uses fuel cells that run on propane. Unfortunately, propane fueled fuel cells are only available in under 1KW sizes.

I chatted with some engineers that were touring the New York State Fair showing the vehicle a few years back, and the fuel cell used in the Chevy Equinox was a hydrogen based 100KW unit, which was the size of a large toaster oven, and cost GM $1,000,000.00 each. I suspect you would need at least 3 of them for a 35' Class A RV...

BTFT · 04-12-2019, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwmcguire

Did you ever nail it!!

There is absolutely no proof EV's have improved anything and the carbon footprint to manufacture batteries isn't well documented

Solar panels and batteries need a lot of tweaking

We had a Volt and when the battery went out cost more than the car was worth

Can you imagine the cost to replace an EP (electric pusher) battery?

Let's not rush things until the technology gets better and the true cost of building and recycling batteries is much improved

I am all for technology but not if it has to be subsidized like the wind farms

"I am all for technology but not if it has to be subsidized like the wind farms"

The Rural Electrification Act of 1936, enacted on May 20, 1936, provided federal loans for the installation of electrical distribution systems to serve isolated rural areas of the United States. ...

Without the REA much of rural America would have been left in the dark at a time when MOST Americans still lived in the Rural areas. This Subsidy along with others helped lift this nation to the pinnacle of the industrialized world and gave a standard of living to millions unimaginable to those of most other countries....

Further most of our really important infrastructure including the one you use to post here were originally subsidized by the US Government. I used what is now known as the "internet" when it was a government invention by DARPA the Defense Advanced Research Agency. Many of the things you enjoy and now take for granted...like being able to use Google Maps on your phone is only possible through the work done by government agencies and then allowed to migrate to civilian uses.

I wouldnt be so quick to decry those subsidies if I were you...

BTFT · 04-12-2019, 07:53 PM

After reading virtually all of the responses so far it has occurred to me that almost no one commenting has actually driven a new generation EV or more directly a TESLA.

And this is the key point. If you havnt you have NO IDEA how good they really are.

Now I am a Car Guy, I have been a car guy since I was 14, All my life I have loved, bought, restored, driven, repaired, read and thought about CARS.

I have owned more than 40 in my lifetime. I owned 4 before I left High school, two of which were English Sports Cars (A Sunbeam Alpine and and Austin Healy 3000)

Now I was NOT an easy convert to the EV. Until Tesla. This was a game changer.

Those of you posting about your Chevy Volts might as well be talking about the model A in terms of Electric cars.

The Tesla model 3 will do 0-60mph in 3.5 seconds and has a 310 mile EPA range. The Tesla Model S100D Ludicrous+ does 0-60 in 2.3 seconds. And it will still go over 200 miles on a charge.

The amount of horsepower and torque that is generated is amazing and can only be found in cars generally costing upwards of $300,000.

The POINT is this. Cars that are FUN to drive, powerful and handle like a Ferrari for the cost of a Tesla and you don't even have to buy gas...this is what has won over so many guys like me including all of the Automotive press from Car And Driver to Motor Trend and all the others.

Put away those old notions of what an electric car is and go out and drive a Tesla.

Now Hybrids have their place in this too and many car manufacturers are making great ones including Jaguar, Toyota and almost everyone else. Car and Driver has a great article of the TWENTY FOUR BEST hybrids for 2019! (go online)

So as long as EV's continue to be great cars to drive they will win acceptance in the marketplace and that is growing everyday. EVERY major car manufacturer has devoted themselves to this future. That has to tell you something.

And what it should tell the RV industry is to get off it's collective duff and get busy.

grindstone01 · 04-12-2019, 07:55 PM

I agree with BTFT. The main reason for government to exist is to subsidize programs for the benefit of the people that could not be afforded by the individual. Think of the Pony Express, 1800's RR expansion, and private space programs that would not have got started w/o subsidies. Gov subsidies are the basic core of Gov existence. Windmill farms are a perfect example of a Gov. subside for the benefit of the people and the environment we live in. Someday windmill farms will be self supportive, but like a child, they need a boost to get started.

ThePowells · 04-12-2019, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindstone01

I agree with BTFT. The main reason for government to exist is to subsidize programs for the benefit of the people that could not be afforded by the individual. Think of the Pony Express, 1800's RR expansion, and private space programs that would not have got started w/o subsidies. Gov subsidies are the basic core of Gov existence. Windmill farms are a perfect example of a Gov. subside for the benefit of the people and the environment we live in. Someday windmill farms will be self supportive, but like a child, they need a boost to get started.

I must have missed that part of my social studies, government studies, and con law classes.

https://www.history.com/topics/unite...n/constitution

Arch Hoagland · 04-12-2019, 08:15 PM

I have driven my cousin's Tesla. Floored it and it took off extremely fast.

My front wheel drive Lexus will pull to one side or the other with the torque. Not the Tesla...it went perfectly straight.

At about 60 MPH I then slammed on the brakes and it stopped very quickly, again straight as an arrow.

The car handles quite well and is, of course, quiet. I didn't care for the autocorrect steering but that can be disabled.

Over the years I've replaced all sorts of mechanical engine parts and done all my own fluid changes, etc. I can definitely see some advantages of an all electric car, or RV.

Like it or not they are coming. Just as cars replaced horses.

grindstone01 · 04-12-2019, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePowells

I must have missed that part of my social studies, government studies, and con law classes.

https://www.history.com/topics/unite...n/constitution

You are assuming Government is only a American thing. Government exist in every known country, even a dictator has some form of Government to govern his country and that includes subsidizes for infrastructure like roads.

radar · 04-12-2019, 08:53 PM

My wife and I both drive EV’s. (Not hybrids). We are in year 5 of driving EV’s. We bought because they are convenient, perform much better than gassers and are next to know maintenance. We have done a total of 4 test drives on various Tesla’s. We’ll probably pick up a model 3 AWD LR next year. Awesome car. Nothing else foreign or domestic touched them at any level. Performance, safety, low maintenance, convenience.

Any child brought up in an EV household will NEVER buy anything but an EV. Like stepping back in time.

I think there will be a lot of effort to shut down Tesla or st least to get them to relocate to Europe or China in the next two years. Oil companies and big Auto know they gave a few year window to get the job done. I think you will see top politicians involved in this process within months. Tesla is the most hated company in America and big media will be paid big bucks to do whatever they can to bring them down in the next three years. I hope they make it. China is becomknv the clear leader of the EV world. Tesla is the only western based company that has a shot at competing.

rarebear.nm · 04-12-2019, 08:57 PM

All though history governments have funded or help fund many activities. From the early sailing explorations around the globe, early canal systems in the US and elsewhere, railroads, our highway system, coal, oil/gas, farming and now day renewable energy. Nothing new or unusual about any of that

Government handouts have come in many forms, tax breaks, direct subsidies, underwriting the entire early endeavors (space programs and the early Internet). In many cases the activity grows and matures enough that government giveaways are no longer required. Consider the present near earth space program.

A quick check on the Internet shows the history of government giveaways for the various energy programs, hydo, nuclear, coal, oil/gas and solar/wind. At last some of these are being reduced for the fossil fuel industries, Peabody Coal recently reported record profits. Depending exactly what is included, coal has been given over 100 billion while oil/gas handouts total over 250 billion over the last 100 years or so. I would not be too critical what giveaways the solar/wind industries are now getting.

What kind of roads would we be driving on if it wasn't for federal highway funding?

RVPioneer · 04-12-2019, 11:41 PM

Yes, the public good. Wonderfully vague isn’t it? Who doesn’t enjoy having someone else decide what’s best for them?

We were discussing the RV industries foolish oversight in failing to build electric powered motorhomes, correct?

redhooker · 04-13-2019, 08:15 AM

Pioneer-yes we were

. I see no place in this technology for the RV industry to play a role just yet. As I stated earlier the RV industry produces absolutely zero engines. When a viable electric option exists, I am quite certain they will offer it.

I have driven electric vehicles of a few varieties. I have also attended classes on how to deal with them in collisions on the highways.

I often drive well in excess of 200 miles a day. The current offerings would never work for me as even the “200 mile range” does not apply if you are running the AC-which I always am.

To make electrics work in my opinion they need to move to a standardized battery. One that can be swapped out at a service station for uninterrupted driving. I think only then with this system work for most Americans.

radar · 04-13-2019, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redhooker

Pioneer-yes we were

. I see no place in this technology for the RV industry to play a role just yet. As I stated earlier the RV industry produces absolutely zero engines. When a viable electric option exists, I am quite certain they will offer it.

I have driven electric vehicles of a few varieties. I have also attended classes on how to deal with them in collisions on the highways.

I often drive well in excess of 200 miles a day. The current offerings would never work for me as even the “200 mile range” does not apply if you are running the AC-which I always am.

To make electrics work in my opinion they need to move to a standardized battery. One that can be swapped out at a service station for uninterrupted driving. I think only then with this system work for most Americans.

A model 3 LR will have no problem doing 200 miles with AC blasting.

On version two Superchargers the average length of stop is 24 minutes. On Version three it is 16 minutes.

BTFT · 04-13-2019, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePowells

I must have missed that part of my social studies, government studies, and con law classes.

https://www.history.com/topics/unite...n/constitution

Perhaps a re-reading might be in order before calling out someone else...The Constitution provides for government for the Common Good. It also created 3 branches of government. One which has the power of the purse...to spend for the common good.

We elect representatives to that branch to make laws and spend our money for the Common Good. And constitutionally that has included public works projects. From the very beginning the Congress has been tasked with approving and funding everything from roads to space flight.