Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > iRV2.com General Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-21-2012, 04:14 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 106
If you didn't agree, then don't sign..
__________________

__________________
Del & Carol/Muffin & Satina (Pugs)
26 yrs Air Force, 22 Yrs Civil Service/2005 Bounder 35E, 8.1

1fanman is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-21-2012, 04:27 PM   #16
Member
 
Startech's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scouting for fun
Posts: 97
"It is generally contrary to public policy to attempt to contract away liability resulting from negligence."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondad View Post
Which, in laymans terms means you cannot waive negligence regardless of what the waiver says. If there is negligence, you can sue for negligence. Just gotta prove the negligence.
Thank you much, I read that 3 or 4 times and could not figure out what it meant-LOL

I did discuss it with the clerk and he did not comment one way or the other. But he did take my payment afterwards. And I was very polite when I went back to the office to offer to sign a new form. I apologized and begged and really lowered my self esteem to stay. But I got the ole "owner says you have to go and not to bother him about it again" excuse. I was even real polite when I left, cause like a said, I was on a first name basis with some of the staff.

But now, thanks to this forum, I have my answer. 'sign the form, you can't waive stupidity or negligence no matter what it says on the form'.

They would not tell me who the owner was or how to contact him. I know how to find out if I wanted to, but then what?
__________________

__________________
Greg-Full time since 2/2011
2004 Country Coach Inspire 360 with a 14,000 lb car hauler for the Jeep
Startech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 04:28 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Francesca's Avatar
 
Vintage RV Owners Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Port Hadlock, Washington
Posts: 2,855
Here's what you crossed out:
Quote:
or accidents, owner and/or customer actions or in-actions (or those of their employees, agents, or invitees).
I think the biggest problem was that you made them "liable" for the actions of other customers when you ran your pen across that line.
__________________
Francesca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 04:32 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Alan_Hepburn's Avatar
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: San Jose, Ca, USA
Posts: 1,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalynzoo View Post
Personally, I would never sign a contract releasing the park from all liability, from owner, employees, etc. I understand natural occurances, but really, employee actions? If they hit your RV with their utility vehicle they are to be held harmless?
The way I read that clause was that the owner will not be held responsible for actions of the employees - not that the employees are not liable. So, if an employee damages your rig you can seek restitition from that employee, but not from the owner.

To me it sounds like they're trying to protect themselves from those "deep pocket" lawsuits - sue everybody and their brother hoping that someone will pay up.
__________________
Alan Hepburn - San Jose, Ca
2007 Bounder 35E being pushed by a 2008 smart fortwo Passion
Good Sam Member #566004 * FMCA Member #F431612
Alan_Hepburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 05:47 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Francesca's Avatar
 
Vintage RV Owners Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Port Hadlock, Washington
Posts: 2,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startech View Post
.

They would not tell me who the owner was or how to contact him. I know how to find out if I wanted to, but then what?
It sounds like you like the resort and would like to go there again.

This could be a tough fence to mend, but you might consider a note explaining your "confusion" or something and slathering on some honey about what a nice place it is etc...Give it some time to sink in, and then the next time you want to go there, try to make a reservation. At that point I guess you'd find out soon enough if you're blackballed, or if they even remember this "unpleasantness".

Good luck!
__________________
Francesca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 05:49 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Sky_Boss's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ON THE ROAD...SOMEWHERE
Posts: 6,069
Sorry but I think it was a bit off the wall to modify a contract in the way it was done. If a contract doesn't suit a customer's needs it is time to leave unless a recognized modification is agreed upon by both sides. Personally, if I was CG management and found that a customer may have tried to pull a fast one over me, I would probably exercise my right to have them leave. Trust is a 2 way street and such a surreptitious attempt to change the contract would tell me that such a person is not a forthright customer.

I'm not going to debate the merits of the clause. It is what it is and that is that. Nor am I trying to pass judgement on the true character on either party. I don't know them well enough to do that. I'm just saying that at a given moment, both sides may have acted in a rash manner.
__________________
Don, Sandee & GSD Zeus. Guardian GSDs Gunny (7/11/15) & Thor (5/5/15)
2006 DSDP 4320, Spartan MM IFS, 2013 CR-V, Blue Ox Avail, SMI AF1, Samsung 197R Refer.
Sky_Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 05:57 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
TdogKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Small Town USA , California
Posts: 1,349
Next time just scribble your name badly, let them figure it out if they need to bring out your contract if something happens. Sounds like if they are that wreck less I wouldn't want to stay there maybe in the long run they are doing you a favor.
__________________
TdogKing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 08:25 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
VanDiemen23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 778
I've done the cross-out thing on a number of documents I've been asked to sign, in private transactions and at work. Most of the time it's been accepted without incident. At work, I occasionally catch some $#!t for it, until I explain the unintended consequence that the document created - usually I get a "we didn't think about that" response.

Seems to me if they took your money after accepting the document you should have been able to stay for the duration of the payment. the "owner" can bitch at his employee, but not you. The employee could have turned you away at that point, but didn't.

At every race, I have to sign "the waiver" - which basically says you know racing is dangerous and won't sue anyone. Everybody also knows it's totally worthless, something the insurance company requires but won't stand up to a stiff breeze if true negligence is evident.
__________________
VanDiemen23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 08:34 PM   #23
Moderator Emeritus
 
RickO's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Litchfield Park, Arizona
Posts: 10,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanDiemen23 View Post

At every race, I have to sign "the waiver" - which basically says you know racing is dangerous and won't sue anyone. Everybody also knows it's totally worthless, something the insurance company requires but won't stand up to a stiff breeze if true negligence is evident.
X2

It's probably true that one can't "fix stupid"... but I think it's also true that a business owner can't excuse stupidity or negligence (in advance) by having all customers sign a fine print contract on check in.

Rick
__________________
Rick, Nancy, Peanut & Lola our Westie Dogs & Bailey the Sheltie.

2007 Itasca Ellipse 40FD
RickO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 10:49 AM   #24
Member
 
Startech's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scouting for fun
Posts: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startech View Post

I did discuss it with the clerk and he did not comment one way or the other. But he did take my payment afterwards. And I w
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_Boss View Post
Sorry but I think it was a bit off the wall to modify a contract in the way it was done. If a contract doesn't suit a customer's needs it is time to leave unless a recognized modification is agreed upon by both sides. Personally, if I was CG management and found that a customer may have tried to pull a fast one over me, I would probably exercise my right to have them leave. Trust is a 2 way street and such a surreptitious attempt to change the contract would tell me that such a person is not a forthright customer.

I'm not going to debate the merits of the clause. It is what it is and that is that. Nor am I trying to pass judgement on the true character on either party. I don't know them well enough to do that. I'm just saying that at a given moment, both sides may have acted in a rash manner.
Please re-read my post more carefully. And, um, yeah, you are offending me by passing judgement on my character.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanDiemen23 View Post
I've done the cross-out thing on a number of documents I've been asked to sign, in private transactions and at work. Most of the time it's been accepted without incident. At work, I occasionally catch some $#!t for it, until I explain the unintended consequence that the document created - usually I get a "we didn't think about that" response.

Seems to me if they took your money after accepting the document you should have been able to stay for the duration of the payment. the "owner" can bitch at his employee, but not you. The employee could have turned you away at that point, but didn't.

At every race, I have to sign "the waiver" - which basically says you know racing is dangerous and won't sue anyone. Everybody also knows it's totally worthless, something the insurance company requires but won't stand up to a stiff breeze if true negligence is evident.
X3-I also have done it over the last 3 decades and this is the first time it was a problem.

No matter what, I want to thank everyone for their input on this.
__________________
Greg-Full time since 2/2011
2004 Country Coach Inspire 360 with a 14,000 lb car hauler for the Jeep
Startech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 10:57 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
W4MBG's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 650
its just another piece of paper in their pile at the courtroom. you still can't sign away your right to sue.
__________________
1999 Winnebago Minnie 29', Ford V10, Close to stock.
W4MBG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 11:18 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
flaggship1's Avatar


 
Fleetwood Owners Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rainbow Riding
Posts: 18,395
Startech - sorry you took offense at another posts opinion. When I post I don't expect everyone to agree with me or support my position. I'm as interested in the other POV as I am in hearing I was right. It's difficult sometimes to "write around" the "you" when it was something you did or did not do. In this case I don't think anyone disagrees with your right to do as you did or for the owners to do what they did. We face terms and conditions all the time and take or leave them as we see fit. Maybe I'm thick skinned on this one but I didn't really see it as character assignation - just another persons description of the situation.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.
__________________
Steve & Annie (RVM2)
2008 Fleetwood Bounder 38F ~ 325 ISB Turbo ~ Freightliner XC 2014 CR-V ~ Invisibrake / Sterling All Terrain
Sioux Falls, SD (FullTime Since Nov 5th 2014)
flaggship1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 12:54 PM   #27
Moderator Emeritus
 
Gary RVRoamer's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Silver Springs, FL. USA
Posts: 18,085
What I see here is that an employee (the clerk who signed you in) accepted a contract modification (your cross-out) that his employer did not authorize. The clerk should have said "I can't accept that change", but he didn't, so your version of the contract was in effect for your first night. Then the boss said "No way", and told the clerk to reject your terms (and also refund your money?). Not wanting to get in any more trouble, the office workers just relayed the boss' rejection and said "get out".

Whether his terms are reasonable or not, they are his terms. Just like his prices, you can accept them or take your business elsewhere. Apparently you didn't feel all that strongly about them, though, since you were prepared to sign without modification later.
__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition
Home is in the Ocala Nat'l Forest near Ocala, FL
Summers in Black Mountain, NC
Gary RVRoamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 02:19 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 456
contract

What little I remember from contract law:
1) A "Hold harmless clause" may not be inforceable. I never sign one anyway. Why risk it?
2) an inability to change a contract may lead to two problems
a) It is not inforceable on its face (there was no meeting of the minds) or
b) You accept it and are forced to adhere to it. If you paid out money (an exchange of consideration) and signed it, you may be held to it's terms.

Not being able to change contract terms can lead to an "adhesion contract" which may be voidable.

The underlined MAY is what keeps lawyers in business.

It would be interesting to look at the state's laws governing rental property.

Best bet - don't do business with any one who insists on these types of contracts. Protect yourself.
__________________

__________________
Dick Noble is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Las Vegas motor Coach Resort chev Monaco Owner's Forum 69 03-29-2016 05:40 PM
Oasis RV Resort, Amarillo, TX Wayne M Camping Locations, Plans & Trip Reports 15 11-04-2011 09:38 PM
Las vegas resort questions VA REBEL Camping Locations, Plans & Trip Reports 13 10-10-2011 10:21 AM
The Serengeti Resort Madame Boomer Texas Boomers 1 08-27-2010 06:32 AM
Outdoor Resorts Pacific Shores Motorcoach Only Resort - Newport OR JudyandJim Camping Locations, Plans & Trip Reports 15 04-02-2006 07:00 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.