Is quality going down hill ?

[pawpawboyce]

i have an 06 dp and i really like it. the quality is good and i pamper it like the devil. if i'm not traveling, it get's checked nearly every day. started frequently and moved around the storage yard to exercise it as much as possible. an idle mh for months like anything else just seems to run down.
all motorhome mfgs boast to have the best coach in it's field, but really they are no better than the craftsmen putting them together. no quality control--no quality.

[two-niner]

I think my point about the "model T" was reinforced by the response of owners of older motor homes. And some newer motor home owners.
First, the term "Model T' was NOT meant to insult anybody. They were very dependable and was "the car" which set Detroit to work.
It is just a greater possibility of the more electronic's, etc,., the greater possibility of something going wrong. But even pop-up campers have problems.
My last word(s); It is the luck of the draw. Period.

Kerry

[rough road]

Even if we could afford a new coach we would never ever buy new; the build quality is horrific, materials are worse and support is worse yet-and then there is depreciation-buying new is simply nuts.

Find an old gem with genuine wood inside, preferably with a diesel under the cowl/hood-then go right through the coach-we saw an old Barth last weekend and the owner was very honest about the investment; the coach cost 20k and they put another 45 into it.

Essentially a brand new rv for about 65 large, that my friends is smart money....

When I asked if they would do it again they responded, 'really sorry we did not do this 50 years ago'....

Will they recover the costs when the time comes?, I believe that not only will they get back the investment, but with interest.

[Ernie n Tara]

Hi,
I guess I have a different viewpoint. Yes! There are quality problems in assembly and low end coaches use cheaper materials, but I get tired of "They don't build em like they used to!". Thank God! I remember when 50,000 miles was a lot for an engine, oil consumption was the norm, electrics (starter, generator, etc.) were an ongoing problem, etc. etc. (and I'm talking 50's and 60's; it was worse before then)
If you really want to spend half of your time keeping things working, buy an older car or MH (even if you could get it new!). If not; get a new one. today's vehicles are the most reliable ever produced. You'll probably have problems But, you are unlikely to have major problems in the first 100,000+ miles. The screw ups are minor stuff where the workman was hurried, or careless, not using, or leaking, oil.
Remember when you had to have a tune up every 20 or 30,000 miles; I didn't think so! Probably not the quart of oil you had to add every 1,000 or so miles either, etc. Today you'll leave the doghouse on for the first 100,000 miles and should never have to add oil between changes.
Just my $0.02.
Ernie

[swampdog2]

same here thank God! they don't build them like they used to, and as far as gas verses D/P I WILL TAKE D/P as i can tell you from experience you will never keep a exhaust manifold on a gas from leaking (far Very Long that is)

[Lug_Nut]

Originally Posted by WOODYDEL

Diesel pushers are the worst for problems. Too much integrated bull. Too much computer control from one system. Too many specialized parts you can't easily find and in the future will not find. Most owners are loyal to brand. To sway them away, seems like you'd need a mistake like an ejection seat installed by mistake and blasting you through the roof by mistake. Too many expectations that it is normal and expected to break down. When Ford comes out with their diesel option, the DP will not be so attractive. Ford is the biggest supplier of chassis's and backs their product. My manufacturer Four Winds made a mistake overloading the rear axle. The axle did not fall out. The springs did not break. The shocks did not explode. And my fuel lines did not leak.

Simpler the better. The "simple" Ford chassis is used by Winnebago. The model I will be getting is the 37L. It was loved by many at the last RV show I attended and has plenty of spare carrying capacity over both front and rear axles. Excellent quality throughout. Even under the bed which by the way looks like a dresser cabinet.

I like to dream about the "big rigs". I've even posted a great looking NeoPlan here on this site. If you take the time to read the Neoplan owner's blog you will find him fixing a lot of really expensive things. He even admits it.

Anyway, for me trouble is a Diesel Pusher.

There's one last thing. I'm retired recently and sometimes get pretty bored. Maybe breakdowns if you're full timing break it up. Just something I was thinking.

Diesel puhers are probably the most trouble free of all. The gas rigs have a weak link, the transmission. Besides, the issues experienced by most are not chassis or driveline related, more electronic and house stuff. That stuff is in them all.

Peter

[Seajay]

We have a 2000 Pace Arrow with a Ford v 10 engine. It is showing 109,000 on the clock and the big ticket item was a blown trannie for four grand outside Denver. I had trouble with the electrical wiring in the dash due to some idiot running the coex over a sharp edge of steel that holds up the steering wheel. I had some problems with the ''black box'' wiring because the wires just ''hang'' on the studs and will wear into sometimes. The rear bedroom slide was designed by an idiot and I think I have that fixed now. Other than that, it has been a very reliable coach for all those miles and I am going to keep it going for a lot longer. I know all the ''bumps and rattles'' now and if something stops I can usually fix it myself cause I have done it before.

I have looked at new coaches and DP coaches and I figure I will just be buying a new set of ''problems'' for a great deal of money and losing my ''ash'' when I hit that bump out of the parking lot at the dealer showroom...

everyone to their own ideas on this but I am sticking with what I got.

[two-niner]

Lug_nut: Thank you.

Now about your doctorate in Mixology. I was thinking about upgrading my Masters Degree in Mixology. Can you give me any good advice?

Just asking.....

Kerry (MGD) hit me with your best shot.

[chiefdave]

I certainly agree with many of the comments on this thread regarding workmanship at the factory. What gets me is each manufacturer is required by law to run every coach through a water testing facility to check for water leaks. The problem is they do no fix any of the leaks. Then send the coach to the dealer to be sold to us and we have to deal with these issues. Many times you find obvious problems that should have been caught by the quality control people on the assembly line. These things add up and we are left to think “What major items am I going to find”. We all know that during the first year most of the problems are fixed and you have a good 3-4 years that things settle down. One thing is for sure, it does not matter how much you spend for you coach we all go through the same growing pains.

[B Bob]

larrygrandpa - IMHO RV makers try to make what will sell. Up until about 2006-2007 a lot of motor homes were being sold at profitable prices. The crunch started to hit in 2007 and between then and now there has been a scramble for survival. My impression is that the makers had more room to add higher quality components before the crunch.

I do no agree at all the diesel pushers are more trouble prone than gassers with comparable features. I have owned both and the motor, transmissions, brakes, and so on are very reliable. More so than gas coaches. You usually get more features on DP's and therefore more stuff to go wrong. A spring is way more reliable than an air suspension. But you get a huge benefit of a far more comfortable ride.

My impression is that the years 2000-2005 were very good years for reliable high quality construction. The only real advance in the years since then is better TVs. I solved that by just replacing the old style TVs. And I threw out the CD multi disk player.

One are of real concern for me if I wanted a new motor home is the pollution control changes for 2009+ models. It would be my choice to avoid the new motors until proven reliable.

[inspectorudy]

The things that I have noticed and hated are how things are made so that they cannot be taken apart and repaired. If they break they are to be replaced. Also, some of the small hardware items like latches and hinges are really poor quality and for just a few bucks could have been upgraded to a much better quality. I think all the problems I have had are with hyd. levelers and slide motors/controls. They seem to be way under engineered and seem to be of the philosophy that less is more. You guys are right though, if we didn't have problems we wouldn't be on this site.

[Norm4015]

I am certainly glad they don't make them like they used to. In over 109,000 miles of driving diesel pushers I have had zero problems with the chassis and one engine problem - a bad fuel injector that was replaced under warranty. The cabinets in my motorhome are top quality and since I have never had a water leak I guess they were quality made. When new I did have a few problems, but it will soon be two years before I have had even minor problems. This year we ran around the country and it was a pleasure to drive and live in our motorhome.

My last car was a Honda CR-V and in 120,000 miles driving and 81,000 miles towing it never had a problem. My present CR-V has over 45,000 on the odometer and over 20,000 towing without a problem. So in about 266,000 miles my CR-Vs have never been worked on for a problem. Now that is what I call quality.

I recently built a house and I was on-site every day during construction. I have built houses before and I have to say this one has the best quality of any of them.

I don't understand the complaints about lack of quality because I haven't seen that in years. Maybe I have been lucky or maybe I just do a lot of research and make good decisions when buying or building.

[Midniteoyl]

I dont know.. Seems to me none of you have autos with more than 50-100K miles..? Why the low expectations for gas? Sure, diesels CAN get 500--1mil miles, but how many of you have reached that point? Unless you drive the thing like a trucker, I doubt many, if any, have. And putting the miles on that a semi does is actually the key to a diesel getting that high milage, not just the simple fact that its a diesel.

Car gas motors since the mid-90's up and trucks from around '99 up are more than capable of going greater than 300k miles. Mainly due to using lower tension piston rings, but also better metallurgy and tighter tolerances.

I dont have a vehicle with less than 150k miles. My highest is a '96 Aerostar with over 340k. The lowest is a '96 Audi with 154k.

[rough road]

Norm4015, no other industry typifies the downward spirial in material/labor quality more than the home building industry and the market saturation of poor quality staples-nails, drywall, hardware is just the beginning.

Our family started building homes in 1935 and EVERYTHING was made on site/in the shop for the home in progress, cabinets, staircases, built-ins-no pre hung doors or pre fab anything: nothing quite like hanging dutch doors knowing that if the master was able to measure a difference in swing you'd be staying over on Saturday afternoons rehanging at no pay. Painted wood had to be backprimed/sealed, ditto interior trim, get caught not undersealing head and seat boards on bay/bow windows and that day was your last if you were a seasoned member, if you were new you got to square and rebutt shingles for a few months.

Today I drive by million dollar houses and laugh at the workmanship I see; using a skilsaw to cut through the birdsmouth on rafters would have got me sent home for at least a week, more amusing is the way material is delivered and treated on the site, amazing.

With rv and home contstruction I'll take the good ole days anytime.