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Old 07-12-2016, 03:06 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by jrocker View Post
I'm not arguing the truth of QC shortcomings in the industry, but give me numbers. What is the average number of items on the first punch list. How many RV's have warranty work done in that first year? ......
Of course, none of this is readily available. One would have to get off the couch and do some investigating.
Investigating or not, this is private data. Forest River or Thor could provide it, but do you think that's in their best interest?

I'm all for data and think that data like average number of problems on an RV and average time to resolution could be great from the consumer, but who is going to publish such a thing?



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Let's face it, the RVIA standards used today are simply outdated. Hence, the never ending punch list.
Outdated or not RIVA is like having home builders agree to build to code without actual inspections on the construction. Sure, builders agree to surprise inspections, but also pay the salaries of the inspectors. Sounds like something works well for Tony Soprano.

It's a great best practices guide, but I can't see that it's anything other than a paid-for sticker and and agreement to "try" to meet those standards.
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Old 07-12-2016, 04:02 PM   #128
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Well the dealer doesn't have much to do with the quality of the unit, but your point is well made. You can't expect to pay for a Yugo and get the quality and performance of a Mercedes. Unfortunately many people do.
Not a good analogy. A Mercedes costs more and provides a higher level of material quality and performance, but that doesn't mean that spending less money on a Hyundai will get you a car that leaks, rattles and falls apart. It won't be as well equipped, won't ride as nice, but it will still be reliable and solidly built. There's no reason why the RV manufacturers can't build a solid, reliable product. Proper employee training coupled with well thought out procedures and processes should yield better results than what we're seeing. When I pull into a campground next to someone with a new rig that is dumping water from the wet bay do to bad plumbing connections; problems like that shouldn't be chalked up to the "you get what you pay for" attitude that is so unfortunately prevalent here.
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Old 07-12-2016, 04:19 PM   #129
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They build the prototypes knowing what kind of tests they will be put through. I'm sure that quality control on those "test" models is 100%. It's when they build yours that QC falls by the wayside.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. Mine's never had a "punch list" or been to a repair shop or back to the dealer since I drove it off the lot new. Gas, oil changes and air in the tires and that's it.
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Old 07-12-2016, 05:51 PM   #130
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Presuming they had the budget to do so (I'm guessing they do not) I'd love to see Consumer Reports start doing reviews of RVs, cost of ownership, etc. Right now the only data is in the hands of the manufacturers and I'll bet my last penny they're not going to share that information, so it'd be great to get a third party to cough up some actual data to go with all of our seat-of-pants.
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Old 07-12-2016, 06:03 PM   #131
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It's a safe bet that representatives from various manufacturers and the RVIA are reading this thread.

I can only wonder what they are thinking as they scroll through the comments.
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:02 PM   #132
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It's a safe bet that representatives from various manufacturers and the RVIA are reading this thread.

I can only wonder what they are thinking as they scroll through the comments.
They probably check their sales projections, count their money, and forget about it.

In about 1968-70 I spent a few summers and breaks between college semesters working for a up and coming catering truck company in Elkhart. When I started, they had 6 trucks, when I left they were up to 28 routes. We brought coffee, donuts, and sandwiches to the RV and mobil home businesses around Elkhart and surrounding towns. I saw the building of travel trailers and mobil homes up close. I would take a brand new truck I'd pick up in Chicago and drive around knocking on doors to build up a route. When the route was about $250 a day, I'd turn it over to a contract driver and go to Chicago and pick up a new truck.

Some people would gather up a couple of thousand dollars, buy materials from all the vendors of trailer components in the region, build a trailer, sell it, and build another. I saw garages with one trailer being built at a time move down the road and start building two at a time, and so forth. Many of the workers, some Amish or Mennonite craftsmen, would go from one shop to the next for pay increases.They were consciencious workers. I also saw a number of jokers also in the business that would try to steal from our truck like it was a game. Their work ethics were on par with their honesty.

Now the RV industry is bigger, with corporations and business models, but it's still about the same thing, make money. A friend I went to school with got into the mobil home decorating business, She and her mom would outfit a mobil home with everything but a change of underwear. Many of their 'high end' decorations were made of foam, plastic, or plaster. They looked impressive, but don't use them.

I look at modern RVs and see the same things that I saw in the garages and sheds over 45 years ago. All appearance and flash, little quality or pride in workmanship. Slap it together, move it out to a dealer's lot, build another. As long a folks have money to spend, they will build them the same as they have been.
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Old 07-13-2016, 01:56 PM   #133
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I have heard that RV manufacturers spend much more on what you can see rather than the infrastructure that you don't see, so you have to expect things to break down much quicker than you would expect. Then they tell me to buy used rather than new. I don't like to buy things that are closer to the end of their expected life. So my first RV is a brand new custom ordered motorhome which I (fingers crossed) expect to be my last
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:27 PM   #134
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A lot of it our fault. We keep buying crap knowing it is crap, but it is the only crap around. How about no one buys a new RV for 5 years. But that will not work because we want our shiny new toys even though they are crap. my $.02.
Why I buy old stuff that's in okay shape and rebuild it to my own spec. Current unit was originally manufactured in 1975, bought it for what the aluminum siding for one side would have cost me and it looks far more modern than its current counter parts.

Interiors gutted down to the frame, which is being built to a durable standard, and then a modern interior will be built up inside, complete with the nice flooring and butcher block counter tops, currently ordering the cherry cabinet doors and drawer fronts.

In Truck Camper's there's a couple quality manufacturers, Host being one, (but you'll be sinking 50-60,000 into a unit that's smaller than your average TT or 5er for half the price (They're comparable to smaller Class Cs).
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:41 PM   #135
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Just makes me all the more determined to get my Honey fixed up better and the way I want her and keep her for longer. Really would like a larger engine so I could do hills with more ease though... sigh....
I agree, Marty. We have kicked around looking at a new RV but I'm thinking we'll just keep the one we are familiar with.
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:43 PM   #136
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That article is BS...campgrounds have never been fuller...I have never seen more RVs on the highways...everytime I go to Camping World to get something, the place is packed.

An RV experiences a prolonged and SEVERE earthqauke EVERYTIME it moves...things shake loose...things break...scare tactic stories don't do anyone a bit of good...
The RV boom and campground crowding is a direct result of lower fuel costs for the past year or so. Once gas/diesel starts climbing to $4+ and more again, those crowds will thin out.
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:51 PM   #137
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I've been shopping for my first motorhome for quite a few months and enjoy participating in the various threads here and reading just about anything I can get my hands on that is motorhome related. I also subscribe to a few email lists that pertain to the motorhome industry.

Honestly, most of the blogs I read pertain to a growing and bustling RV industry, so imagine my surprise when I opened up a newsletter today and read that someone is finally addressing the problems that so many on this site have reported.

Yes, the lack of Quality Control is the number one issue that we as consumers face with today's motorhomes and finally someone is addressing the elephant in the room. I hope the Admin feel it's okay to post this link as it's something that could benefit all of us.

Opinion: The RV industry death spiral Part 1 | RV Daily Report

Allow me to add that I am in no way affiliated with this publication and I'm simply a subscriber.
Thanks for sharing...I just signed up for the newsletter!
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:08 PM   #138
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as part of the discussion, I would agree that more RV parking site options would be nice for travelers. While we use the 'large parking lot' of big box stores periodically, it's really due to the fact that easily accessible, easy-to-find, and economical RV parks are not always available to RV travelers who just need an 'overnighter' while passing through.
Granted, RV parks and Campgrounds are businesses, and must be profitable to keep the doors open, it would be interesting to see a new type of RV parking option open up for RV travelers that would cater to easy-in, very simple or self registration/payment, with only basic services needed.

One of the most interesting RV Parks we have ever had the pleasure of overnighting at was somewhere out in Kansas, if my memory is correct, and called 'RV EXPRESS', or similar name. It was right of the interstate with about 15 or 16 sites, most being pull thrus, with full hookups, on a gravel lot.

The 'office', if you'd call it that, was a small building for self registration. A large board on the wall showed the layout of the property and provided a TAG number hung from each available site. Instructions said to remove an available site TAG, insert into a provided envelope, along with your simple 'cash only' payment($15 maybe?), and insert the sealed envelope into the provided payment slot.

This RV Park is not reserveable, is not 'manned', and the owner/collector only comes by sometime during the night or early morning to collect the payments.

Maybe one or two of these will be my next venture : )
I would take a bit of tech development, but combine a direct pay point pedestal for the water/electric/cable (You can hook up, but until you swipe your credit card and select the options and how long of stay, with a preset cut off time, nothing actually gives you anything) with the locking boot thing that the truck stops use for the RV dumps, and you could easily build a mostly unmanned rv moorage.

Throw in a ticket gate like a parking lot with a rate for just parking if they don't insert the ticket at a pedestal and buy services and you're golden.
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Old 07-13-2016, 04:18 PM   #139
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Part 4 Of This Series Has Been Released

Dealers Drop The Ball On Service

RV Industry Death Spiral – Part 4: Dealers drop the ball on service | RV Daily Report
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Old 07-13-2016, 06:43 PM   #140
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We have had just the opposite experience than this author writes about.

This author seems to be making blanket statements that every single RV or dealer is like this. That's not true. The sky is not falling.

We full-timed 16 years and traveled constantly. We bought two new RVs during this time. We never returned to the selling dealer. We easily got any needed service without waiting. Service was done in a day or two and we were able to stay in our 'home' at night on the lot, sometimes with electric. We've also used mobile private repair facilities who would come to the campground and found the prices to be more reasonable than a dealer.

Of course, we didn't have major issues because we bought good RVs to begin with (Travel Supreme & Newmar). Maintenance appts. were made for a facility we'd be heading for anyway. We'd show up the day before, spend the night on their lot, maintenance was done as scheduled and we left.

Absolutely no issues for us so we're not understanding why some folks have such a problem. Is the dealership too big or too small? Don't folks trust the small repair shops?
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