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Old 07-05-2016, 07:37 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by jharrell View Post
Seems to me pretty much like the car industry until the Japanese came or the Cell phone industry until Apple came in. Every one knew what was wrong but no one did anything about it. It took new players to shake things up and do the obvious, which is now expected.

The RV industry needs a new player that make affordable solid and reliable RV's. Where is the Toyota of RV's?
Will it be NeXus?:

https://nexusrv.com/motorhomes/class-a/
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:56 PM   #16
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It is different today

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Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
Deaf ears.........

Same op-ed could have been written 10 years ago and been just as current.

Only thing these articles will accomplish is making 'author' feel good, increase his subscription base and allow him to thump his chest "Look at me"

He brings nothing new to table.......
Consumers have been vocal for years.
MFGs don't care cause 'units' continue going out the door
I agree this has been a long-standing problem. But, can you recall a time when an industry publication has taken a stance like this?

Yes, consumers have been vocal. You post gripes on this forum and on Facebook. You get a lot of sympathetic ears, but just try to find the comment or complaint two weeks from now. It evaporates into nothingness and, because the industry doesn't read this forum or participate on Facebook, the people who need to see it never do.

Contrary to your first about increasing my subscription base, I fear losing mine -- industry professionals -- who can readily take their advertising with them when they unsubscribe.

The RV industry doesn't take kindly to renegades. It is, for all intent and purposes, an Elkhart-centered Good Old Boys Club. People who play the game are rewarded for their obedience. People who rock the boat are often sunk and then eaten by the sharks.

GREG GERBER
Editor, RV Daily Report
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Old 07-05-2016, 08:38 PM   #17
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When Navistar bought Monaco the set out to build a new RV, using the techniques and resources it knows from the heavy truck industry. They set out to actually engineer a motorhome. Wind tunnel time. Full mock ups for ergonomic and styling evaluation. Stuff I see in my job as an automotive engineer. The result? The Monaco Vesta (and Holiday Rambler Trip). Nice RV, but about double what it needed to cost to make it a success. And it missed the mark is some basic motorhome/rv stuff. Very reminiscent of the short lived GMC motorhome.

Navistar ran away. There's a success story waiting to happen out there somewhere, right? Sound like Greg doesn't think so.

And Greg. Is it fair to ask what you own? Maybe just what it is? Motorhome?
Trailer? Something else?

(And your pie-chart is wrong. 3.2% is a smaller slice than you show...)
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Old 07-05-2016, 08:57 PM   #18
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I looked at a Forest River DP and saw cheaper materials like thinner plywood cabinets. Decided on a Tiffin, knew the materials were better.

But still disappointed in the workmanship.
Latest example: wanted to check the connections on the 110v breakers.
Should be two screws holding on the plastic face plate. One screw was broken off because it was cross threaded. So they drilled a hole at the edge of one side of the panel and use a wood screw to hold that side of the panel in.?

The things I have found are a simple result of workers not trained, or who just don't care. Sad to think you need a quality inspector for those kinds of issues.

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Old 07-05-2016, 08:59 PM   #19
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A lot of it our fault. We keep buying crap knowing it is crap, but it is the only crap around. How about no one buys a new RV for 5 years. But that will not work because we want our shiny new toys even though they are crap. my $.02.
Exactly!!!
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:15 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by gjgerber View Post
I agree this has been a long-standing problem. But, can you recall a time when an industry publication has taken a stance like this?

Yes, consumers have been vocal. You post gripes on this forum and on Facebook. You get a lot of sympathetic ears, but just try to find the comment or complaint two weeks from now. It evaporates into nothingness and, because the industry doesn't read this forum or participate on Facebook, the people who need to see it never do.

Contrary to your first about increasing my subscription base, I fear losing mine -- industry professionals -- who can readily take their advertising with them when they unsubscribe.

The RV industry doesn't take kindly to renegades. It is, for all intent and purposes, an Elkhart-centered Good Old Boys Club. People who play the game are rewarded for their obedience. People who rock the boat are often sunk and then eaten by the sharks.

GREG GERBER
Editor, RV Daily Report
Greg, Welcome to iRV2.

Thanks for sticking your neck out for us.

It seems the issue is that someone is always willing to make a less expensive unit and build it quicker than the next guy. This forces the others to do the same to keep their heads above water. I have watched this same scenario play out in the construction industry, where someone will always build it cheaper and faster than the next guy. Those that don't play that game go out of business.

Very few are willing to tell the Emperor that he is in fact naked.

I have a 2015 FW Crossover and have had very few issues with it to date. I hope it stays that way but the trends keep me anxious to say the least.
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:32 PM   #21
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There is nothing out there that I can afford that even comes close to the quality of my 13 year old Beaver! Why spend 100's of thousands of dollars for less than I have now just because it smells new?
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:38 PM   #22
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You must be one of the few who did. 2016 has been the best year for RV sales yet. Over 381,000 so far this year. Excellent sales are expected to continue into 2017.
Sadly, styling and advertising hype apparently sells more RV than quality ever will.
I was at a FMCA Rally a few weeks ago, 120 vendor coaches were there, we left them there. So much BLING and so many things that can go wrong. I could not believe the number of people who had never owned an RV that were looking at $X00,000Coaches.
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:46 PM   #23
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What I feel is sad is, we KNOW reps from the RV mfrs (Fleetwood, Newmar, Winnebago, Thor, Tiffin...just to name a few) monitor posts on our & other rv-ing forums. They've seen members gripe, for years, about quality control. We attend their rallies & tell their engineers/marketing/sales people in "customer feedback" sessions how frustrating/time consuming/disappointing it is for us to have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on RV's & end up spending weeks/months/cancelled vacations at dealers or at the factory to have techs fix what should've been caught before the RV even left the factory or get the stall tactic while the mfr figures out who's to blame. We're told, "We're sorry", "We'll look into that", "We're working on improving"...yadda....yadda...yadda. Yet nothing changes.

What's wrong with this picture?!?

Lori-
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:54 PM   #24
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At a recent fmca rally we had a rep from Winnebago come talk to us about the quality of there high end Tour. I was wanting to take a look at one they had at the show and see how it was built. The bathroom door was framed so loose it would go to the inside of the room. My wife went to the back and opened a door and the handle came of in her hand. I told her to put it back on and we left. I was surprised a unit with such blatant defects would be shown to the public.
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:56 PM   #25
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I don't know if anyone else noticed but Hymer AG a German company and Europe's largest motorhome and caravan manufacturer purchased Roadtrek this last February. They have been talking about coming to North American for five or seven years. Several years ago they showed some trailers (caravans) at the Tampa Super Show and people were very impressed. They could be the game changer that people are talking about. When I have looked at European motorhomes online I have always been amazed at the luxury and styling they featured. Of course, then there is that thing called German engineering. (The shine is off the apple somewhat after the VW fiasco. I know too well I own a VW TDI. )

Will Hymer be a game changer? Only time will tell.
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Old 07-05-2016, 10:11 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jharrell View Post
Seems to me pretty much like the car industry until the Japanese came or the Cell phone industry until Apple came in. Every one knew what was wrong but no one did anything about it. It took new players to shake things up and do the obvious, which is now expected.

The RV industry needs a new player that make affordable solid and reliable RV's. Where is the Toyota of RV's?
And recalls to boot!!
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Old 07-05-2016, 10:18 PM   #27
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Seems to me pretty much like the car industry until the Japanese came or the Cell phone industry until Apple came in. Every one knew what was wrong but no one did anything about it. It took new players to shake things up and do the obvious, which is now expected.

The RV industry needs a new player that make affordable solid and reliable RV's. Where is the Toyota of RV's?
ask the people of detroit how having a foreign company come in and do it better worked out for them. Why do we have to rely on imports to be our savior? The U.S. companies could easily do it....they choose not too and we allow it by buying their products.
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Old 07-05-2016, 10:23 PM   #28
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... Of course, then there is that thing called German engineering. (The shine is off the apple somewhat after the VW fiasco. I know too well I own a VW TDI. )...
I owned a BMW 3-series for 12 years. The Germans can do an engine/drivetrain/suspension like no one else, but the quality of the car body/components they put on top of it left a lot to be desired.

Not sure even the Germans could produce a quality RV.

Lori-
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