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Old 07-05-2016, 11:34 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by redcolorado View Post
A lot of it our fault. We keep buying crap knowing it is crap, but it is the only crap around. How about no one buys a new RV for 5 years. But that will not work because we want our shiny new toys even though they are crap. my $.02.
I agree, keeping my 09, not willing to be another of the industry's unpaid quality control inspectors finding what they should have already.
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:43 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by bluepill View Post
It's too bad that Honda put so much effort into their robot and jet plane. If they had built an affordable quality RV product instead, the industry would be quite different by now.
Your post made me raise and eyebrow and nod my head in agreement. Well said.

Honda, are you listening?
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:46 PM   #31
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When Navistar bought Monaco the set out to build a new RV, using the techniques and resources it knows from the heavy truck industry. They set out to actually engineer a motorhome. Wind tunnel time. Full mock ups for ergonomic and styling evaluation. Stuff I see in my job as an automotive engineer. The result? The Monaco Vesta (and Holiday Rambler Trip). Nice RV, but about double what it needed to cost to make it a success. And it missed the mark is some basic motorhome/rv stuff. Very reminiscent of the short lived GMC motorhome.

Navistar ran away. There's a success story waiting to happen out there somewhere, right? Sound like Greg doesn't think so.

And Greg. Is it fair to ask what you own? Maybe just what it is? Motorhome?
Trailer? Something else?

(And your pie-chart is wrong. 3.2% is a smaller slice than you show...)
Actually, the 3% on the pie chart looks about right. It's not three degrees, it's three percent.
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Old 07-06-2016, 01:46 AM   #32
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I'm very impressed with my 1998, 2nd year of Monaco ownership Holiday Rambler Endeavor pusher.
My friend bought a Leisure 2 years ago, very good quality and support, but the thing was 128k! His friend bought the Airstream, it was 160k!!!!
We still go to the shows and the 100-160k Fleetwood A's and others are so cheap, using the same staple construction and thin paneling they used 30 years ago. The lino and trim is always hap hazard.I thought Warren Buffet buying into the game would have raised the mark, but profits is profits, why should he burden himself with changing the game?
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Old 07-06-2016, 03:49 AM   #33
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The state of quality in the industry is where it is because the customer accepts it, and in many cases, defends it.

After decades of owning trailers, I recently began shopping for a motorhome, and was appalled by the lack of quality control. I found this to be especially true with the number one selling manufacturer.

I lamented on these boards, and the responses were more of an indictment of the customer than of the manufacturer.

"There are literally thousands of components on an RV. You can't expect it to be perfect!"

"The price of the coach would be out of reach if quality control processes were implemented!"

"Things shake loose on delivery. Come on! You're buying a house on wheels!"

While I find comments like these laughable regurgitation's of what the RV industry has told consumers to believe, I (and many of us on this thread) am in the minority. And until that changes, NOTHING will change.
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Old 07-06-2016, 06:19 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by jrocker View Post
The state of quality in the industry is where it is because the customer accepts it, and in many cases, defends it.

After decades of owning trailers, I recently began shopping for a motorhome, and was appalled by the lack of quality control. I found this to be especially true with the number one selling manufacturer.

I lamented on these boards, and the responses were more of an indictment of the customer than of the manufacturer.

"There are literally thousands of components on an RV. You can't expect it to be perfect!"

"The price of the coach would be out of reach if quality control processes were implemented!"

"Things shake loose on delivery. Come on! You're buying a house on wheels!"

While I find comments like these laughable regurgitation's of what the RV industry has told consumers to believe, I (and many of us on this thread) am in the minority. And until that changes, NOTHING will change.
I agree with your points. Sometimes I wonder if we are defending the industry or rationalizing all the money we spent on sub-quality products. None of us want to look like we are throwing good money after bad........ But I also know how much we enjoy the lifestyle and travel. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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Old 07-06-2016, 07:46 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by dpinvidic View Post
I looked at a Forest River DP and saw cheaper materials like thinner plywood cabinets. Decided on a Tiffin, knew the materials were better.

But still disappointed in the workmanship.
Latest example: wanted to check the connections on the 110v breakers.
Should be two screws holding on the plastic face plate. One screw was broken off because it was cross threaded. So they drilled a hole at the edge of one side of the panel and use a wood screw to hold that side of the panel in.?

The things I have found are a simple result of workers not trained, or who just don't care. Sad to think you need a quality inspector for those kinds of issues.

Dan
I've done some business with a large manufactured home company. They start people on their line at $9 an hour and have a tremendous amount of turnover. Seven out of ten people that apply for jobs can't be hired due to failing a background check or drug testing. The RV industry uses a similar model so it's no wonder they have training issues.
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Old 07-06-2016, 07:50 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by NLOVNIT View Post
I owned a BMW 3-series for 12 years. The Germans can do an engine/drivetrain/suspension like no one else, but the quality of the car body/components they put on top of it left a lot to be desired.

Not sure even the Germans could produce a quality RV.

Lori-
As a pretty satisfied former BMW owner, I can't imagine what a motor home engineered by BMW would look like mechanically. There is a lot of engineering for engineering sake in a BMW product.
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Old 07-06-2016, 08:06 AM   #37
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By 1982 Chevy had lost about 1 million in car sales per year that they never got back. As long as sales keep going up the only happy customers will be in spite of the Manufacturers/Dealers/Service. Many happy customers will be buying used after the Original owner had everything repaired.

I understand that a MH is more like a home than a car but there is still a lot of room for improvement from cradle to an often far to early grave.
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Old 07-06-2016, 08:08 AM   #38
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Having bought my 09 for a song I didn't know the words to, I'll hang in for another good used one, if required.
I thank those that can afford the new stuff and also the lengthy time involved in shooshing away the build bugs and taking good care of it. Time, in this sense, is a great friend that can bring out the quality for us.


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Old 07-06-2016, 08:09 AM   #39
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We the buying public are the reason for the lower quality of all of the products we buy including motor homes. Walmart is a good example of what we the people have done. We tend to buy the cheapest version of a product while convincing ourselves it's the same at the one priced 50% more. I have to laugh at the union guy complaining about the loss of factory jobs while on his way to Walmart to buy the Chinese widget he wants or needs. We the people demanded lower prices on everything we buy and we got just what we asked for. The same is true with the RV industry. Who on this forum would go out and pay $400,000 for that perfect gas coach, when a very similar looking one could be had for less that half that amount? Low quality is not the fault of the RV industry. They are just the "Walmart" that is providing what we have asked for, and are willing to accept. We all want better quality, but we want it at the "Walmart Price". So all the complaining is not going to change anything. Only when we refuse to buy the lower quality products and are willing to pay for the better versions, will the industry change.
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Old 07-06-2016, 08:28 AM   #40
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They may have one now. Thor has purchased the ultimate opportunity.
I'm not sure that Thor has a reputation for improving the condition of their acquisitions. See Airstream and DRV post-purchase.

And Thor needs is ultimately on the hook for their revenue projections to stockholders. Adding quality certainly costs money, at least up front, and it's not exactly clear what the payback is.

The company that is definitely taking advantage of the current state of the union in the RV industry is Grand Design. Their support model is outstanding and completely opposite what I've experienced with Thor Industries. They're also privately funded, which may give the (ex-Keystone) execs a bit more latitude.
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Old 07-06-2016, 08:36 AM   #41
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Sadly, nothing will ever change. Buy the best unit you can and accept the fact that the Exec's only care about 2 things.

1.) Maintaining their salaries
2.) Profit, Profit, Profit

The industry is what it is. Until RVs stop selling so well, the Exec's won't change a darn thing. Instead it will likely get worse before better. I am not condoning it, just making observations.
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Old 07-06-2016, 08:37 AM   #42
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.... We tend to buy the cheapest version of a product while convincing ourselves it's the same at the one priced 50% more. I have to laugh at the union guy complaining about the loss of factory jobs while on his way to Walmart to buy the Chinese widget he wants or needs. We the people demanded lower prices on everything we buy and we got just what we asked for. The same is true with the RV industry. Who on this forum would go out and pay $400,000 for that perfect gas coach, when a very similar looking one could be had for less that half that amount? Low quality is not the fault of the RV industry.

Crasher, I'd agree with you, but consumers should at least be given a choice or have transparency in what they're purchasing. Consider a "new" RV'er who purchases a brand new 5th wheel, price range $40-$65k (not including the tow vehicle):

* We're told that it will have a 1-3 year warranty. We're not told that in many cases warranty work is back of the line and repair times can easily exceed 30 days for a single issue. Have 3 issues, it's easy to see 90+ day repair time.

* We're told that the warranty is nationwide. Yet non-purchase dealers (in most cases) can chose not do to warranty work - or at least make sure that the consumer is persuaded not to bring it in. They choose not to do it because they're not paid appropriately for it by the manufacturer.

* Manufacturers (most states) are not held accountable for reasonable products - the lemon law does not apply to RVs in most cases. You can have an RV that is mostly unusable (new) for the majority of the 1st year and it's acceptable for the industry to spend most of that time repairing it.

* We hear experiences of consumers with 120+ days of shop time within the 1st year. Although I don't know how common this is and certainly some repairs are reasonable, there seems to be no real consumer recourse for egregious quality issues, outside of funding litigation against what is a bigger corporation with deeper pockets.


Provide me a quality vs cost option and I'll be responsible for my choice. Instead, if you ask for "better quality" a dealer sells you an RV made on the same line as a lower price one that has better cabinets and more bells and whistles.

Airstream and DRV - has quality gotten better since they were purchased?
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