"Live-ins" or, "Long termers" and reservations!

[FIRE UP]

Folks,
At the risk of being flamed to death for this post, I'll just give my opinion anyway. When we travel, about 99.999% of the time, it's done with no real destination or time frame in mind. We determine when we want to leave home and, with the motor home packed, either the 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 in tow with a GL 1800 loaded in the back of it or, we hitch up our '03 Jeep Rubicon.

We simply head out in a direction that may have interesting points of interest or, maybe to a previously visited area. We basically never make any reservations. We've been doing it this way for quite some time and, up 'till recently, we've had very little trouble finding a nice camp spot, either in an RV park, a private resort/campground, KOA etc.

But, in the last few years, we've are encountering more and more "Live-ins" or, maybe more identified as "Long termers" in ALL of the campgrounds/RV parks we end up at. Now, we don't always require hookups. Much of it depends on the weather etc. If it's hot and we think we need A/C, we'd prefer hookups for the A/C so us and the little princess (mini Schnauzer) can remain comfortable while there. If it's not too hot and or, we feel a "boon dock" situation is warranted, we'll end up in a NF campground.

But, in the nicer campgrounds/RV parks, we pull in and now, more than ever, see obvious FULL TIMERS, LIVE INS, LONG TERMERS, for lack of better descriptions. Now, the term "Full timers" may or may not apply here. Many Full Timers actually TRAVEL and do not homestead a space in a park. But, in many, many places we just visited in the west, CAL, NEV, Idaho, Montana, etc., when we pulled into a park, and stepped into the office, the first words out of the clerks mouth, "Reservations"???

We say, "nope". About 95% of the time, they do have a spot but, in many cases, it's not a nice spot, it's one of the last they have and is not one of the nicer, maybe more shaded or, in a better spot in the park.

Folks, don't get me wrong here. We're not looking to be treated like King and Queen and get the best spots, in all campgrounds, no matter that we don't have reservations. It's just that is sure seems the long-termers/live-ins seem to be multiplying. I have spoken to many campground owners and, while they do get a guaranteed space rental for each and every one of them, they get considerably less money, per month from each of them, due to monthly rates vs the rate they charge for daily travelers.

We never know where we're heading, and or, any form of itinerary. Hence, that means we can't make reservations. But, based on the operating condition of a very larger percentage of the nicer campgrounds/RV parks out there, we may have to alter our traveling "M.O" so to speak. Many of you that participate in this forum, may be some of those "Live-ins". Well, you gotta do what you gotta do in this life.
Scott

[lynnmor]

You are a transient, pronounced with a snarl.

noun
plural noun: transients
1.
a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time.
synonyms:hobo, vagrant, vagabond, street person, homeless person, down-and-out

We are seeing more and more of the same and I hope that it doesn't present too much of a problem in the future. The word transient is being used all the time here in the east, and I think it is sometimes meant in a demeaning way.

[Gary RVRoamer]

I'm not sure that a greater number of "live-ins" is the reason you are finding parks full. RV ownership has been and continues to grow rapidly, while campgrounds are limited in their ability to expand and the price of the large pieces of land needed continually increases. More campers but little more spaces for them.

Trust me, campground owners aren't losing money on monthly rates either. They charge at least as much as their average monthly income for the site. If a popular site is normally occupied 30 days/month, there won't be much, if any, discount on it. I know a couple campgrounds that price each site individually based on its historical occupancy rate for the month. Ain't computers grand?

We've been long timers for 16 years now. For age and health reasons, we don't move around as much as we used to, so maybe have filled in some spot you wanted. Sorry if we inconvenienced you!

[twogypsies]

A few things may be happening:

1. The past 'crop' of full-timers are older and have seen the areas on their first trips through and now just enjoy being in the area for a longer period of time.

2. There are many younger full-timers out there - in their 40's, 50's. They typically are still working - from their RV with technology available nowadays.

3. With today's economy there are folks that yes, have to live in RV parks because that's where their jobs are and many have jobs that requires them to move around.

4. You won't have the problem if you utilize state parks, national forest campgrounds, Corp of Engineer parks or any public park. They typically have a 2-week limit. Those are the kinds of parks we really enjoy. Yes, they may work out to being more expensive but we offset that cost by using our national Senior Pass giving us 1/2 off on a campsite. We also volunteered in parks from 6 weeks to 3 months' time....not just any park...a park that we really wanted to be at and explore the surrounding area. There are also many county parks and city parks that are awesome. We also enjoy boondocking on national forest or BLM lands.

[Old-Biscuit]

Make reservations or take your chances........

Applies to all
Liveins, Long Termers, Full Timers, Transits, Travelers, Weekenders etc.

[donnandon]

" the first words out of the clerks mouth, "Reservations"???"

The basic reason for the question is that most of the time they already have your info and paperwork completed with a reservation, so check-in is a little easier. More than likely you will also get a better site, since the office staff can look at what's available on the computer and select a specific one, or give you one you ask for. If you just show up, the person may just give you whatever site the computer comes up with. We know this because we have worked in a number of campgrounds over the years.

We are "full-timers" so we normally make reservations to make sure we have a place for our 40'L home. Last summer we traveled through 11 Midwestern states with 21 stops. We usually made reservations about a month in advance. We always had nice sites. This summer we are in one place for the whole summer. I guess this would be bad in the OP's opinion.

[thebignewt]

Originally Posted by twogypsies

4. You won't have the problem if you utilize state parks, national forest campgrounds, Corp of Engineer parks or any public park. They typically have a 2-week limit. Those are the kinds of parks we really enjoy. Yes, they may work out to being more expensive but we offset that cost by using our national Senior Pass giving us 1/2 off on a campsite. .

What Senior Pass is that which you use for 1/2 off, and where is it valid? We have a Senior Pass we got at a national park, is that it?

[MtnTrek]

Like any business in the hospitality industry I believe there is a goal to achieve 100% occupancy 100% of the time. So it would seem there is a delicate formula most park management will use to maximize profits and decrease labor. I think you'll find that the more crowded the park is the higher the rates will be, overnight and long term.
We hear first hand the tight rope they (managers) walk and the pressure they're under with reviews in social media, evictions, everyone wanting a 50A. pull through, etc. Apparently either segment, long or short term, have the potential to be problem's or saint's.


We saw a slump in the industry nearly a decade ago with parks closing. Now we're seeing a bubble forming with a noticeable lag in infrastructure or capital improvements. Some investors will hopefully seize the opportunity to jump on this segment of "societal evolution". Perhaps not.


Similarly, I'm continually seeing the "Tiny Home" phenomena developing yet there is virtually no development of infrastructure following this industry. US investors must have much more lucrative ways to make monies in this information economy?


We book as far out as possible and/or practical, and yes it does seem challenging at times.


Happy trails.

[nothermark]

I'm not sure it's reservations. From what we have seen a lot of places separate those of us passing through from those staying awhile. It seems more of a case of not mixing the folks rolling out in AM from those partying all night then sleeping in.

[FIRE UP]

Trust me, campground owners aren't losing money on monthly rates either.

Well,
According to at least two owners we spoke with just within the last couple of weeks on our trip, they ARE loosing money on the full timers. The reason is, because the folks agree to long term occupancy, they get a reduced rate. For instance, in the Richfield UT KOA, the owner charges his long term folks $425.00 a month. We, as over-nighters, paid $40.00 with any applicable discounts.

His explanation is "do the math" and you come up with $40.00 x 30 days and you get $700 for the same site that he's presently getting $425.00 for. And the counter staff is continually turning away folks like us due to full campground occupancy. And he also stated that, that doesn't include the ones trying to make reservations and are also turned away due to full occupancy. He doesn't see those.

He, the owner, also owns a trailer park that's adjacent to the KOA camp and he's planning on remodeling the trailer camp to form new "over night" sites and, keep only a few of the long term spots. He knows and understands the need for mini-long-term spots due to seasonal workers or specialty workers for short time.

As for the ones that suggest: "get reservations", well, I most certainly agree with you IF, YOU KNOW WHERE YOU'LL BE AT A GIVEN TIME. With very few exceptions, we will continue to do what we do and how we do it. If we can't find a place in a park due to too many long termers or, just plain a full camp, we'll either boon dock or, Walmart it for the night.

I certainly don't disagree that reservations are the way to go. It assures you a spot, for whatever length of time you may be there. It may also, as has been suggested, assure you of a better spot, in a given camp. If we had an itinerary, we would definitely do reservations.

Who knows, maybe we'll have to change our ways and be like the rest of the planet and, reserve spots months/years in advance, just to be assured we have a safe place to spend the night or nights.
Scott

[Fred and Bonnie]

I's like a lot of people say, "It's the economy stupid"

Fred

[paz]

Originally Posted by thebignewt

What Senior Pass is that which you use for 1/2 off, and where is it valid? We have a Senior Pass we got at a national park, is that it?

America the Beautiful Senior Pass. Good for 1/2 off at National Parks and National Forests only where the campground is NOT run by a concessionaire. Most popular campgrounds ARE run by concessionaires. However, Corps of Engineers campgrounds are typically not run by concessionaires.

[twogypsies]

Originally Posted by paz

America the Beautiful Senior Pass. Good for 1/2 off at National Parks and National Forests only where the campground is NOT run by a concessionaire. Most popular campgrounds ARE run by concessionaires. However, Corps of Engineers campgrounds are typically not run by concessionaires.

Here's the link to all the passes:

http://https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/passes.htm

Many concessionaires honor the Senior Pass. It's up to them. However, we've always gotten the 1/2 from concessionaires. Two recent that I recall are Haviland Lake and Taylor Park, national forest campgrounds, both in Colorado. They are both extremely popular and stay full. Note that the 1/2 off is only on the campsite, not electric, if they have it.

The pass also gives you free entrance to all the national parks, national historic sites, etc.

[twogypsies]

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

Trust me, campground owners aren't losing money on monthly rates either.

Well,
According to at least two owners we spoke with just within the last couple of weeks on our trip, they ARE loosing money on the full timers. The reason is, because the folks agree to long term occupancy, they get a reduced rate. For instance, in the Richfield UT KOA, the owner charges his long term folks $425.00 a month. We, as over-nighters, paid $40.00 with any applicable discounts.

Pricing is up to the RV park. If he doesn't want to loose money then he can easily stop giving the long-term rate. He will then have his RV park open to travelers only and I can guarantee you that his park will not be full year-round.

As for the ones that suggest: "get reservations", well, I most certainly agree with you IF, YOU KNOW WHERE YOU'LL BE AT A GIVEN TIME. With very few exceptions, we will continue to do what we do and how we do it. If we can't find a place in a park due to too many long termers or, just plain a full camp, we'll either boon dock or, Walmart it for the night.

In our 16 years of full-timing we had no issues with not making reservations. Like you, we don't want to travel that way and it's been no problem for us. We even got sites in the popular national parks without reservations, such as Yellowstone, Glacier, Zion, etc. There are always cancellations if you get there in the morning and many parks have campgrounds that don't even accept reservations. Dry camping is just fine with us.