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Old 04-08-2016, 12:12 PM   #15
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Thanks everyone, I knew I would get many different opinions as I do hope to get more.
The reason for the 3 I posted were mainly on floor plan.

We are looking at the Winnebego Grand Tour 42QL, The Tiffin Allegro Bus 40SP and the Monaco Diplomat 43SG.

We have looked at the floorplans of the Newmar Dutch Star 4018 and it still may make it to the top 3.

While price is certainly a factor, we are willing to spend the price if we get the quality, floorplan and features we want. Our biggest hang up on many coaches is shower size. We are not small people and we have become quite used to the very large shower in our gas class A. We can get our business done in the "corncob" showers, but for a couple of hundred grand, we want what we want.

Tomorrow we are headed out to look at our top 3 manufacturers. We are also going to the Newmar and Entega dealer to check them out. Luckily in Atlanta, we have dealers with many brands to choose from.
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Old 04-08-2016, 12:50 PM   #16
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Discounting brands, if I was in your position, I'd take the money you'd spend for a new model and put it on a year or two older higher rated model. You'll get a lot more coach for the same amount of money AND it will have all the bugs worked out. New coaches are full of problems, some big, some small...I'll never have another new one. That's what we did with the one we have now.
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:01 PM   #17
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If you are considering a Tiffin I would strongly suggest you spend some time on the Tiffin RV Network Forum and see some of the issues that Tiffin owners have encountered and how they have dealt with them.

New versus used is an age old argument and comes down to personal preference. The guy who buys used says the bugs are worked out and the guy that buys new says the used unit is a former owner dumping a headache. Sound arguments exist on both sides so it becomes a personal preference as much as anything.
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:23 PM   #18
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I am wanting to buy a used Class A Gas Motor Home somewhere around a 32 foot. I am considering a 2008 Monaco 30SFS Monark. This Coach has a Ford Chassis rather than a Monaco Chassis. I can't find the Chassis number but the GCWR is 25,500. The owner says that it does not handle very well. I wonder if the Coach really doesn't handle well or it the owner just isn't use to driving something this size. He did mention how close you are from side to side from other traffic. He also says that occasionally the generator quits going down the road and he thinks that is from heat. He says that puling off of the road awhile allows it to cool off or whatever else and then it comes on again and there is no problem. I have heard of some drivability problems on some models. Any information that you can give me will be appreciated.
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Old 04-08-2016, 05:24 PM   #19
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After RV'ing for several years and being the caretaker and head maintenance guy when my dad needed stuff done with his 5 coaches over the years, starting with a Winnebego Vectra, then his Newmar and now his third Newell, the bugs are NEVER worked out. Lol.
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:41 AM   #20
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Ok. Here's my take. We have an older Newmar Dutch Star (2000), and after going to many, many RV shows including the Tampa Super Show 4yrs. straight, I've seen the quality leave a lot to be desired. They're using a lot of plastic, and fake wood to cut costs, even in the higher end coach's. They use a lot of flash to grab your eye, but that doesn't get you down the road. Ours is all solid wood with no plastic, and built to last. Not to say we haven't had to have things fixed, they all will. We'll keep ours, but if I was going to replace it, I would definitely go used high end.
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:57 AM   #21
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Quote:
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1 Entegra


2 Newmar


3 Tiffin


Or consider buying a used coach from a high end builder.
X2 on this. If Entegra has a floorplan you like then believe they are 1st with Newmar a close second. Tiffin trails a bit. At least my opinion based on several months of research after selling our Airstream. Based on all the dealer reviews NIRVC caught my attention and it paid off handsomely.
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Old 04-09-2016, 06:40 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Discounting brands, if I was in your position, I'd take the money you'd spend for a new model and put it on a year or two older higher rated model. You'll get a lot more coach for the same amount of money AND it will have all the bugs worked out. New coaches are full of problems, some big, some small...I'll never have another new one. That's what we did with the one we have now.
THIS+1!

New is,.......well,....new! Nice. It smells like new. And from MY research I found out that MOST new ones come with "bugs". It seems that if one wants to buy new, and take off on the cross country trip straight out of the showroom, one is in for a big surprise.

IF I would be looking to spend 200-300K on the new coach, I'd be looking at slightly used Prevost. But we are all "grownups", set in our ways, and most of us think that "our way" is the best. My way is no payments. Never. If I can't pay cash for it, I don't buy. I could pay 200-300K cash, in which case I would have to go back to work (way less income from investments). No new coaches for me.

Another thing,........we all use our coaches differently. I've heard hundreds of times about "floor plan" on this forum. "One you can live with". I (and as I said we are ALL different) don't intend to "live in" this thing. I travel in it. Driving ease/comfort, and road worthiness is of biggest importance to ME (hence "converted" commercial buses that I tend to gravitate to).

Just like DW and I having discussion regarding her choice of the 5er (they are a LOT easier to "live in"!), or ClassA. She said we will be "living in it" while we are building the house. I corrected her,....."we will be sleeping in it, and occasionally make a breakfast in it". Cooking, showers, bathroom, laundry .......all will be done at the friends house where we will be parked while building. Once the house is done, we will be "traveling". I did not want to haul 5er with me on my travels. Hence,......ClassA.

"Floor plan" IS the most important thing for people that want to spend extended period of time in the thing. For people that "travel/tour" once in a while,......not so much.

Anyway,.....above is MY opinion, and worth exactly what you paid for it.

Good luck.

Just saw this (one of hundreds like this!) Refrigerator fell across moho out of its slot

New coach 15-20 years ago, and "new" coach today is two different things IMO.
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Old 04-09-2016, 06:55 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcarter View Post
X2 on this. If Entegra has a floorplan you like then believe they are 1st with Newmar a close second. Tiffin trails a bit. At least my opinion based on several months of research after selling our Airstream. Based on all the dealer reviews NIRVC caught my attention and it paid off handsomely.
X3 - I've had Forest River, Fleetwood and now 16 months in our Entegra. If or when I get a "new" coach, it will be an Entegra. Hands down the best manufacturer out there at the price point. Worst experience I had was with the Fleetwood (REV Group). Yes, there are things I have had go wrong with mine, but Entegra/Spartan have jumped to get it right and have let me take it to where I know it would be done correctly and within the right time frame. Other manufacturers require you to take your RV to an authorized dealer. Entegra will authorize the place you need it done. Anyway - you asked for opinions, that is mine.
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Old 04-09-2016, 07:00 AM   #24
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Count me as another who went back to used coaches after buying a new one. And you do get more value for the dollar buying a high end used rig.

Bath/shower size is a floor plan consideration and not brand dependent. But if the best built RV ever made doesn't offer the floor plan you want for comfortable living, it's still no good for you. So find the floor plan(s) you like and then choose the best made among them.
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Old 04-09-2016, 07:04 AM   #25
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We bought a new motorhome the first week of Feb. we were pretty much sold on getting a new Entegra Aspire. Well after spending a week looking at motorhomes we ended up with a Tiffin Phaeton. I cant count how much time we spent in each motorhome but it was alot.
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Old 04-09-2016, 07:31 AM   #26
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So I have a question for all the "buy used" people and I DO NOT mean this as a dig at all, but I see this a lot and I have no doubt if you look long enough and at any where in the country you will find a good used coach. Now whether it is the exact floor plan, colors, amenities, ETC, ETC is debatable. I still have seen many many get a great deal on a used coach and love what they got.

BUT my question is what is good used quality??? 2002, 2004, 2008, 2010, 2012?? What year are you all considering as used quality over new quality? At some point all NEW coaches are used coaches, so what year is the quality break in most peoples opinion?

I bought new because I wanted what I wanted, colors, TV's, electronics, ETC and had a price range, as most people here do, so that is why I went new. I traveled to Florida to pick up my coach and drove it 1300 miles home with no issues. Has it been flawless, absolutely not, but it was under warranty and still is for awhile so I am not worried about it and I will take extra care in maintenance and upkeep.
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Old 04-09-2016, 10:19 AM   #27
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So I have a question for all the "buy used" people and I DO NOT mean this as a dig at all, but I see this a lot and I have no doubt if you look long enough and at any where in the country you will find a good used coach. Now whether it is the exact floor plan, colors, amenities, ETC, ETC is debatable. I still have seen many many get a great deal on a used coach and love what they got.

BUT my question is what is good used quality??? 2002, 2004, 2008, 2010, 2012?? What year are you all considering as used quality over new quality? At some point all NEW coaches are used coaches, so what year is the quality break in most peoples opinion?

I bought new because I wanted what I wanted, colors, TV's, electronics, ETC and had a price range, as most people here do, so that is why I went new. I traveled to Florida to pick up my coach and drove it 1300 miles home with no issues. Has it been flawless, absolutely not, but it was under warranty and still is for awhile so I am not worried about it and I will take extra care in maintenance and upkeep.

The condition of a used coach, regardless of OEM quality levels of components, materials and workmanship as it left the factory - is all dependent upon the care and maintenance since it left the factory. (And obvious statement, but wanted to separate Good Used Quality vs Ill say High End Quality built coaches.)

IMO, all of the years you listed above can yield coaches of High End Quality.

I've used this example before, but it's sort of like out shopping for a resale home. Looking for a home with a floor plan layout that you like, overall well maintained, and with a solid foundation. And priced appropriately. This allows you to come in and make the home into what you want, as far as paints, maybe changing tiles, or components, etc.

I feel it's the same way when going used vs new. Pick your budget level for purchase. Reserve three buckets of funds on top of this: 1) For making it our coach via remodeling and changeover to your desire; 2) Contingency bucket; 3) Catch up re-baseline maintenance of mechanicals (So you know where you are on the maintenance schedule, and have that good baseline to work from going forward.)

What are High Quality Coaches? Well it will vary between different people, as in all things, many times people can look at the same item and see it from different perspectives.

For me, these are the High Quality Coaches, that we felt would work well for us:

-Amercian Coach
-Beaver (Patriot Thunder on up)
-Country Coach (Allure on up)
-Monaco (Executive on up, and equivalent Holiday Ramblers)
-Foretravel
-Wanderlodge
-Newmar (Mountain Air on up)
-Travel Supreme

(Again, these are back in the years you mentioned, so newer models not included.)

And in isolated years, other models of these coaches slide in here too. For example, in some years the Monaco Windsor and Dynasty were very well equipped, with great chassis. (Dynasty is one that many would have included in that list at all times. A fine coach, but I desired a BIG BLOCK, and Dynasty as well as the Windsor, usually had the Mid Block Cummins ISL. Dynasty had a few years where you could option them with ISM or Detroit DD's. Do not believe the Windsor could be found with the larger blocks.)

For us, I was giving extra points on our comparison spread sheet to pre heavy smog changes starting in 2006 era models. (And yes, even a 2006 model, could have 2005 pre heavy smog changes engine, so the specific are important to research!)

Even though the list above was our primary hunting, and we had a narrower listing of specific models and years within this, I also looked at and liked:

-Alpine - Like the quality and the handling of the Peak chassis. They also were one of the few DP's that could be found with Mid Entry.

-Tripple E - Not as many DP's, and few and far apart. But well made with good cabinetry and superior insulation then many coaches

-Rexhall - Many years of the Rose Air came on the Spartan Mountain Master chassis. Again with a Mid Size ISL or ISC engine. Rexhall had innovative layouts, steel cage safety construction, and their T-Rex large full slides could be found on some coaches on both sides. Making say a 38' seem to have as much room as a 45'.
The build quality was IMO a in the B range compared to the above. As well as content and materials. But a coach that could be modified with ease into whatever your hearts desire.

I did not add Newell or Prevost based coaches here. Today? Yeah, I would have added the 40' two slide XL based Prevost coaches. (My wife and I had an agreement on maximum budget range, as we were not 100% we were going to do this for too long. Though for planning purposes, we used a 10 year usage horizon. Well, we think we're going to extend that as long as we can travel safely. So a higher cost investment would have been warranted. And thus the addition of the Prevost based models now.)

New vs Old? Yeah, covered many many times. And great search reading material. For us, we are now in a coach that we both like (Though I admit I blew it, and let the DW see the coach with this huge galley, and it did not have my desired BIG BLOCK, it has the ISL.). We've taken about 3-4 years of slow interior remodeling, and have two more phases to go. And we are still at about 50% of the costs of a new coach in the same quality level as ours. Resale? Well due to us buying in at the time when everyone else and to get out from under, back in 2009/2010 - we actually had a year or two of appreciation in price. No, we'll never get out what we put into it as far as remodeling. But we did not do it as an investment, we did it as our coach to go use and enjoy.

Best to all, and yeah - long winded! And, no right or wrong here. It's all about choices, and you spend your money how you feel works for you.
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Old 04-09-2016, 01:52 PM   #28
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So I have a question for all the "buy used" people and I DO NOT mean this as a dig at all, but I see this a lot and I have no doubt if you look long enough and at any where in the country you will find a good used coach. Now whether it is the exact floor plan, colors, amenities, ETC, ETC is debatable. I still have seen many many get a great deal on a used coach and love what they got.

BUT my question is what is good used quality??? 2002, 2004, 2008, 2010, 2012?? What year are you all considering as used quality over new quality? At some point all NEW coaches are used coaches, so what year is the quality break in most peoples opinion?

I bought new because I wanted what I wanted, colors, TV's, electronics, ETC and had a price range, as most people here do, so that is why I went new. I traveled to Florida to pick up my coach and drove it 1300 miles home with no issues. Has it been flawless, absolutely not, but it was under warranty and still is for awhile so I am not worried about it and I will take extra care in maintenance and upkeep.
Just to try to elaborate on your question. First and foremost, one needs to ask himself "how will I be using this"? And then start with the list. What are the "must haves", what are "would be nices", and what "I don't need/want these". Once that list is complete, comes the budget. Do I want to make payments on this for the rest of my life (depending on age, but reality at my age)? How much cash can I drop on this without being hurt elsewhere?
Stuff like that.
Once all these questions are answered REALISTICALLY, the right make/model will "appear". Then it's just the hunt to find it.

I wanted long range comfort of airbags, torque, no hesitation on grades (DP). Minimum 350HP (got it), minimum 1200fp of torque (got 1375), Alison 6 speed (got it), tag axle (didn't find one that had it, and met all other criteria), Alcoa wheels (got it), walk through bathroom (got it), queen bed (got it), leather and Corian (got it), real wood furniture (got it).......these were "must haves" in the terms of equipment. But also,........one owner, garaged, MINT condition, never lived in......you get the picture.

W/D was "would be nice" (got it), along with satellite (missed that!), solar (none of this), extra batteries (got it)....etc.

"Entertainment systems" were on the "I don't care list". TVs are cheap these days, along with stereos, speakers, etc.

Once the list is matched against the budget, you go back in years, and find what fits! It's that simple. Especially for someone like me who doesn't mind getting greasy, and likes to turn the wrench (which might be needed in the future). People are afraid of older coaches because they CAN NOT service them themselves, and are afraid of availability of parts. All appliances (e.g.) are replaceable, and all chassis components are available from truck and bus retailers. What's there to worry about? Oh yes,......I forgot......warranty (with all the "fine print" it comes with)! I don't need warranty. I work on it myself (on MY schedule, and my dime).

And that's about it. So whatever floats YOUR boat!

There is no "wrong", or "right" rule here that people need to follow. All about personal preference, likes/dislikes, and the way the thing will be used. IF I would want to go full time in an RV (parked for long periods at a time at one park/resort, I'd be in a BIG 5er!).
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