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Old 09-09-2015, 03:18 PM   #1
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Cool Montana LLC

Any experience using Montana LLC ?
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Old 09-09-2015, 03:31 PM   #2
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Lots of conversation under the Full Timers section of the forum ... went through the application process ... using an attorney in Missoula ... found the lender would not allow vehicle titles to be in the name of the LLC ... took us out ...
Lots of things to make certain are correct in order for the LLC to be safely effective ... the biggest is to make certain you don't own property in any other state ..
Check out the Full Timers section and do a search .......
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:04 PM   #3
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Lots and lots of threads on this forum on the topic. Most posted in the Class A forum end up with a lot of name calling.

As Hal has mentioned, look in the full-time forum for a better balanced perspective. One should not even consider a Montana LLC if not full-time or if not completely full-time, at least spend the majority of the time out of their home state.

If you are in your home state the majority of the time, it will not work and can and most likely will be illegal. You have to abide by the registration laws and regulations of your home state ...specifically, the conditions that trigger vehicle registration in your home state. Using a Montana LLC to register vehicles in and of itself is not illegal but not registering your vehicles according to the laws of your home state will be illegal. Unless you are away from your home state the majority of the time, you risk breaking the laws of your state by registering your vehicles in another state --again, you must research the laws of the state you call "home" as to what constitutes breaking laws pertaining to vehicle registration.

I've used a Montana LLC for about a decade now and it works well for us. We are full-time and do not spend the majority of time in our home state or the state that we call our domicile. Therefore, we are not breaking any laws. I and others have been called some nasty names on this forum for using a Montana LLC but if we are not breaking any laws, I try not to let it bother me.

Send me a Private Message if you have any specific questions as some here on this forum are not well-informed and will blanketly tell you it's illegal and not to do it. It works well if you stay within the law.

And BTW, we own property in several states.
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:13 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by hal1phx View Post
Lots of things to make certain are correct in order for the LLC to be safely effective ... the biggest is to make certain you don't own property in any other state ..
.......
WOW! Our neighbor in FL has an LLC out of Montana and he owns property in FL. I wonder what the ramifications could be??? He seems to very shrewd, I wonder if he really knows anything about this. His biggest deal was NOT haveing to pay sales taxes on his new coach purchase. As a matter of fact I know two people in our FL park that own property and have LLC's out of Montana.
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:31 PM   #5
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Again, it really doesn't matter where you own property or if you own property. It all really depends on whether you can abide by the vehicle registration laws of the state you call "home" or where you domicile (the state where you hold your drivers' license, the state you use for your federal tax returns, the state you are registered to vote, etc. --they all should be the same state, BTW).

I own property in several states but am not breaking any laws by registering my vehicles in a Montana LLC.
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:14 AM   #6
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I can see an LLC for full timers with no other property. But not as a tax evasion, in essence it's steeling from me as I must pay higher taxes. And it's not nickels and dimes, on many of the higher end rigs it's $20,000 yes that's a lot of dollars.

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Old 09-10-2015, 12:03 PM   #7
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I can see an LLC for full timers with no other property. But not as a tax evasion, in essence it's steeling from me as I must pay higher taxes. And it's not nickels and dimes, on many of the higher end rigs it's $20,000 yes that's a lot of dollars.

LEN

Remember, LEN, I'm not "residing" on any of the properties I own.

We live in the RV traveling about the country and are full-timers. We have a state that we consider our domicile and use it for any legal purpose that needs an address. We use it for an address for federal tax returns, for voting, or anything else that needs an address of record.

We still pay property taxes on the properties that we do own in several states. Some of that property we rent to others and some just land alone. I can't see why we are a burden to you and increase your taxes as we are not "evading" paying any taxes we owe. We pay plenty of taxes, believe me.

If we were living in any one of our properties the majority of the time and that property was in the state that we consider our domicile, then yes, we would register our vehicles there. The same would apply if we were renting a house and staying in it the majority of the time.

So again, it doesn't have anything to do with owning property. It has to do more with being sure not to break any registration laws of the state in which we consider domicile.

Owning property does not automatically make one ineligible to use a Montana LLC. Nor does it make one a cheater, a scofflaw, or the most awful of all criminals for using one as long as you are doing things legally. Owning property and having a Montana LLC is not in and of itself against the law!!

I don't believe that we are increasing the taxes YOU have to pay at all or that we are stealing anything from you.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:21 PM   #8
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Furthermore, LEN, as an example, one of the properties we own happens to be in Thurston county. However, we currently do not reside on that property nor are we residents of Washington state although we are originally from Washington state. We do spend some time in the Olympia area as that is one of several of our "home bases." However, again, we are NOT residents of Washington state.

Several years ago, we did buy a motorhome in Washington state where we did put it in our Montana LLC. Yes, we did not pay Washington state sales tax nor the sales tax in the county where the dealership was located, Snohomish county. We did "save" close to $20,000 (didn't have to pay is the way I choose to look at it) BUT we are not Washington state residents. We were out-of-state buyers and technically were taking it out of state to use (where it is the majority of the time). It's like any other out-of-state buyer ...are we all stealing from you?

Again, if we did live most of the time and call Washington state our home state for legal purposes ...where we vote and the address we use for federal income tax purposes, etc.... we wouldn't/couldn't use a Montana LLC and would not even consider it as Washington state makes it difficult and illegal for it to work for most residents of that state.

Where people using Montana LLC's get in trouble is where they are living in a stick house (either owned or rented) in a particular state and are still working or staying in that house the majority of the time. In Colorado several years ago, the state cracked down on these RV owners who had their motorhomes registered in a Montana LLC but living in their stick house the majority of the time. Yes, they were breaking the law. Yes, they were stealing from the rest of the residents of Colorado by not paying the sales tax on the RV and not paying the Colorado registration fees.

So again, it's not whether you own property that makes having a Montana LLC illegal (again, a Montana LLC is not illegal in and of itself) but it's breaking the vehicle registration laws of the state you live in and stay the majority of the time that makes it illegal.

Even though we own property in several states, we do not stay in the state of our domicile the majority of the time and being nomadic, we actually do not spend the majority of our time in any one state. We are not breaking any laws nor do I believe we are stealing from anybody.

A Montana LLC probably should NOT be considered by those who stay in their "home" state the majority of the time. The act of owning property really doesn't have anything to do with it.
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:08 PM   #9
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Whenever clients ask me about LLC's I just tell them that there is a specific order to see whether or not the Montana LLC is right for their circumstance. The first thing is to check the residency laws of your home state. Can you meet and document your compliance with those laws? If you can then you may be good to use the Montana LLC. Be aware that you may have to defend your usage of the Montana LLC and that defense could be costly in both time and money. We have one NYS residency audit that just completed and took over three years to complete.

Just to clarify a couple of misconceptions before the naysayers come out, an LLC is NOT a business. It is an asset protection entity and can be used for many personal purposes as well as business purposes. Secondly there is huge difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Tax avoidance is utilizing and complying with the tax law. A prime example of tax avoidance is the deduction for mortgage interest on a second home or even a first home for that matter. Tax evasion is the under reporting of income or the overstatement of expenses. Tax avoidance is legal while tax evasion is not.
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Old 09-10-2015, 07:54 PM   #10
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Whenever clients ask me about LLC's I just tell them that there is a specific order to see whether or not the Montana LLC is right for their circumstance. The first thing is to check the residency laws of your home state. Can you meet and document your compliance with those laws? If you can then you may be good to use the Montana LLC. Be aware that you may have to defend your usage of the Montana LLC and that defense could be costly in both time and money. We have one NYS residency audit that just completed and took over three years to complete.

Just to clarify a couple of misconceptions before the naysayers come out, an LLC is NOT a business. It is an asset protection entity and can be used for many personal purposes as well as business purposes. Secondly there is huge difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Tax avoidance is utilizing and complying with the tax law. A prime example of tax avoidance is the deduction for mortgage interest on a second home or even a first home for that matter. Tax evasion is the under reporting of income or the overstatement of expenses. Tax avoidance is legal while tax evasion is not.
Taxman that is really an outstanding job on clarification! I think any we should use any legal way to Avoid more taxes! Do we really think the U.S. Government will use our tax dollars wisely! Regards
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Old 09-10-2015, 07:59 PM   #11
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I can see an LLC for full timers with no other property. But not as a tax evasion, in essence it's steeling from me as I must pay higher taxes. And it's not nickels and dimes, on many of the higher end rigs it's $20,000 yes that's a lot of dollars.

LEN
Would have saved us over $23,000 on our used Magna earlier this year, but the fines are way more than that here in WA.
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Old 09-10-2015, 11:39 PM   #12
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Would have saved us over $23,000 on our used Magna earlier this year, but the fines are way more than that here in WA.
I see you're a SKP. Are you a full-timer? If so, then you could have easily, legally done a LLC if you didn't own a house in Washington and didn't stay in Washington over the time limit for residency. See the above post by WNYTAXMAN. It spells it out wonderfully.
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Old 09-10-2015, 11:47 PM   #13
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I see you're a SKP. Are you a full-timer? If so, then you could have easily, legally done a LLC if you didn't own a house in Washington and didn't stay in Washington over the time limit for residency. See the above post by WNYTAXMAN. It spells it out wonderfully.
Own a house in WA that we live in full time. Wanted to go full time in the MH but relatives keep dying and ruining it for us! DW's parents, my parents and then DW's daughter. That last one entailed us "inheriting" two grandkids. Oldest has graduated and moved out, youngest is almost 16 but still has three more years of school.
Now the DW has liver cancer so we probably will never be able to go full timing like we planned.
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Old 09-11-2015, 12:47 AM   #14
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Sorry to learn of all your heartache, Mr D.
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