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Old 07-14-2013, 04:38 PM   #1
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New Michelin LT tire recall

Michelin is voluntarily recalling certain sizes of its MICHELIN® LTX® M/S 2, MICHELIN® X® Radial LT2 and MICHELIN® Latitude® Tour tires. These tires are typically found on light trucks and SUVs



You can read the details HERE.
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:36 PM   #2
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Thanks for the heads-up.
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:41 PM   #3
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Besides making IMHO (and millions of miles of experience) the best truck tire on the market, it looks like they are a standup company as well.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:10 PM   #4
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tires

Have had no luck at all with Michelin tires and will never try the again. IMHO they are over priced and over rated as many of the other brands offer the same warranty and stand behind their tires unlike Michelin.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denlor View Post
Have had no luck at all with Michelin tires and will never try the again. IMHO they are over priced and over rated as many of the other brands offer the same warranty and stand behind their tires unlike Michelin.
Sorry to hear that. I have had over 20 sets of the LTX M/S tires give me between 85 and 108 thousand miles per set. Hankooks and Kumhos barely got 1/2 that, and for the 25% premium in price I am well ahead of the game. Plus I feel that they have more grip as well. Again, sorry that your experience was not the same as I would never consider buying any other tire.
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PushedAround

Sorry to hear that. I have had over 20 sets of the LTX M/S tires give me between 85 and 108 thousand miles per set. Hankooks and Kumhos barely got 1/2 that, and for the 25% premium in price I am well ahead of the game. Plus I feel that they have more grip as well. Again, sorry that your experience was not the same as I would never consider buying any other tire.
I have had similar experience with Michelins as well. From time to time I try other brands on my light trucks and then happy to go back to Michelins.

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Old 07-14-2013, 10:30 PM   #7
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I have had similar experience with Michelins as well. From time to time I try other brands on my light trucks and then happy to go back to Michelins.

Mike
I don't do that. I just buy Michelins to start with since they've been so trouble free.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denlor View Post
Have had no luck at all with Michelin tires and will never try the again. IMHO they are over priced and over rated as many of the other brands offer the same warranty and stand behind their tires unlike Michelin.
I have had the same experience as Denlor. Sidewalls cracking and tread separation . Any tire company that has a chart showing how much sidewall checking / cracking is OK is not for me
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:49 PM   #9
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I have had the same experience as Denlor. Sidewalls cracking and tread separation . Any tire company that has a chart showing how much sidewall checking / cracking is OK is not for me
Chuck
I am not going to take sides of Brand q is better than brand 42 but will comment on having publish standards to assist dealers and engineers be consistent in their evaluation of tire conditions.
You may not realize there is a book published by The Maintenance Council titled "Radial Tire Conditions Analysis Guide". Some of the companies that contributed "expertise, knowledge and photographs" include:
Bridgestone/Firestone, Cooper, General, Goodyear, Hankook, Hercules, Kumho, Michelin, Sumitome, and Toyo.
This guide provides examples along with probable causes and suggested corrective action for the user.
I have also seen the Michelin "chart" which provides ratings on different levels of cracking.

Now I'm not sure what you have against defined, measurable ratings of tire conditions. Personally I prefer a clear reference to avoid having to depend on the person making the call being 100% familear with every possible level of subjective condition and not having a headache or having a "bad day" when asked to rate a tire condition.
But if you believe all the above companies are somehow all deficient because they follow published guides then that is your option. It does however cut down on your selection of tire brands.
Not having a clear guide also makes it less likely you will be able to have a failed tire replaced as the tire dealer can always just say there is nothing wrong with the tire or you are being overly critical of the "cosmetic" condition.

Maybe you could correct me by explaining exactly how much cracking is acceptable when the tire is examined under how much magnification without referring to measurement or pictures.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:49 PM   #10
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Chuck

Maybe you could correct me by explaining exactly how much cracking is acceptable when the tire is examined under how much magnification without referring to measurement or pictures.
Tireman9. In a perfect world you are right on the money and correct on every point.
In my world the tire expert is some tatted up loser making minimum wage telling me that the tire looks good to him.
In my world, I have had only two brands that have given me problems. The first was the famous Firestone 500's that flew apart on a long trip and tore up a fender and the other was Michelins that had sidewalls checking/cracking on my RV which is Garage kept and properly inflated with 30,000 miles and 4 1/2 years old. I am not going to rely on some guy eyeballing the tire, spitting some tobacco juice on his shoe and saying that he guesses that them thar cracks aint that deep. The other was tread separation on a Cadillac that had Michelins.
I put a lot of miles on my vehicles every year and have been buying tires since 1953 which explains why I am a bit anal when it comes to my equipment. Am I wrong ? maybe, has it worked for me ? absolutely.
HOWEVER, If I had access to your state of the art facilities and there were tire shop folks with your knowledge and expertise, I am with you 100 %. I have read many of your other posts and appreciate your kowledge.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:02 PM   #11
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Could also be why we have had different experiences. Almost all of my Michelins never lasted past 5 years as we usually put over 25k miles on each truck per year.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:14 PM   #12
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Good for Michellin. I was afraid you were going to mention the LTX AT-2's. I don't use the MS tires.

I have averaged around 40K miles per year, or about a set of tires every year, for the last 30 years in my business. They have all been with a 3/4T or 1T pickups with diesel engines. I have gone through just about every brand of tire you can think of and put them through the wringer. I am off roads on pipeline right of ways daily. I bought my 1st set on Michellin LTX AT-2's on my last truck. I got 65K miles out of the 1st set and had 58K, and going strong, on the 2nd set when I traded the truck. This is about 50% more miles than any other tire, Goodyear, Bridgestone, Dunlop, BF Goodrich, Nitto, Firestone, Perelli, Cooper, and maybe a few others I am not remembering. None of the other brands even came close to this type of mileage and usually I was pushing to get 40K. I am now requiring all my foreman put these tires on all our crew trucks because I believe they have the lowest cost per mile.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:22 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck 1935 View Post
Tireman9. In a perfect world you are right on the money and correct on every point.
In my world the tire expert is some tatted up loser making minimum wage telling me that the tire looks good to him.

snip


I am with you 100 %. I have read many of your other posts and appreciate your kowledge.
In general the level of sidewall cracking is used to provide an external measure of the probable integrity of the internal structure.

Lets use the analogy of Blood Pressure (externally measurable) and internal heart and artery blockage ie likelihood of Heart Attack.

Now you may not like it when a Dr uses a calibrated instrument (Sphygmomanometer) to measure blood pressure but I am inclined to believe you would prefer that method to that used by Stephen Hales in 1719 by sticking a tube in your artery and measuring how high the blood squirts. Further I am not sure if you would like it if the only way your Dr could make educated diagnosis of the conditions of your arteries would be with open heart surgery. Even then there is no 100% certan diagnosis to predict the exact day you will have the attach.

Like blood pressure, tire sidewall cracking is not an absolute. You can have "high" blood pressure and your heart can be OK. You can also have a heart attack even if your BP reading is "normal".

It is however true, based on cut tire inspection i.e. autopsy, the more cracking observed the more likely there are signs of structural damage ie microscopic rubber tearing. Yes we are talking odds but you make many decisions every day based on odds and I doubt that you choose the 5% or 20% chance over the 95% or 80% chance of coming out ahead.

Now as an absolute, tire sidewall cracking in itself is not likely to cause any serious problems as long as no cord or steel is exposed to outside elements and the cracks are not allowing any air loss. But tires do not heal themselves. Cracks do not shrink. They only grow.

Again based on accumulated knowledge, it is generally known that once cracks get big enough there is a high likelihood that one of two things will happen in the immediate future.
1. The crack will grow and allow moisture to attack the cords
or
2. The structural cracks that cannot be seen will grow large enough to possibly cause accelerated crack growth and possible component separation which might lead to tread or belt or sidewall throw-off.

Now back to your "tatted up loser making minimum wage". For some reason you don't want him to use clear visual chart to make a determination of the probable integrity of your tire but would rather he have no chart and simply make the call based on what he remembered from is limited training session 8 months prior. Your call.

I seldom if ever use sidewall cracking by itself to make an estimate of the general integrity of a tire. There are many other indications. As I have written sometimes I have made a call based on the "shade of black" I observe. This call is based on the fact that I have previously observed some gradation in color of the black interior of a tire and based on the outcome of hundreds of autopsies I am usually correct 80-95% of the time based on actual cut examination.

I have no idea how to learn this without many hours of practice or hundreds or thousands of autopsies . It is both Art and Science.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for the question. I think I can expand on this and it will be a future blog topic.
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