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Old 03-29-2014, 08:57 PM   #29
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I understand the main advantage of nitrogen is that in the main, the tire pressure will be largely unaffected by temperature or elevation. IMO, not much advantage for tires, especially considering the supply difficulty. BIG advantage for your float tube or pontoon boat is you are into fishing, and prefer to leave your inflatables inflated. Inflating your float tube at sea level, throwing into the back of the RV, then going up to 2000 feet is a great way of exploding your tube! But for tires, bit of a gimmick, seems to me....

Nick B
That is untrue. Boyle's Gas Law states all gas's expand at the same rate. You may play around with this online calculator to see for yourself.
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Old 03-29-2014, 09:04 PM   #30
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Air = 78.09% nitrogen. Not needed but has its advantages. Unless a tire is mounted in a controlled atmosphere, it's going to have a great deal of straight air in it.
A tire store tried to sell me on Nitrogen. I asked how they get the normal air out of the tires first. Got that "deer in the headlights look" in return.
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Old 03-29-2014, 09:18 PM   #31
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A tire store tried to sell me on Nitrogen. I asked how they get the normal air out of the tires first. Got that "deer in the headlights look" in return.

They have a special "ambient air extractor" that sucks out only the O2 - it's kept in the drawer with the left-handed screw driver and the sky hook!
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Old 03-29-2014, 09:21 PM   #32
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It seems that every few months this topic comes up and I post on it. Well this will be the last post for me on this topic, so here it is.


Personally, I don't use it or worry about it because it is a property of air anyways. But to say that it doesn't make a difference would take a lot smarter person than me and with many of the posters here having PHD's (LOL) I'll keep my mouth closed on this and let this link do the talking. Enjoy.


Here's is a link to a study that is very interesting if you have time to read and are into numbers and PHD's?
http://www.nitrofill.com/documents/I...port101807.pdf



Here is a study below!

Parker posts results of nitrogen tire inflation trial. By CCJ Staff Drexan Corp. recently conducted a double blind study measuring the effects of nitrogen tire inflation on tire life and fuel efficiency in a long-haul trucking fleet. Performance of nitrogen-filled tires was measured against performance of air-filled tires with and without a maintenance program. Parker Hannifin, based in Haverhill, Mass., provided the nitrogen generator used during this study. The results of this analysis, according to Parker, recently were presented at the Clemson Tire Conference:

• When compared to historical data, nitrogen tire inflation provides a 6.1 percent improvement in fuel efficiency when compared to a fleet with no tire pressure maintenance program;

• When compared to historical data and an in-trial control, nitrogen tire inflation provides a 3.3 percent improvement in fuel efficiency when compared to a fleet using air inflation and a tire pressure maintenance program; and

• When compared to the in-trial air control, nitrogen-filled tires provided an average tread life improvement of 86 percent when compared to a fleet using air inflation and a tire pressure maintenance program. The study, Parker says, infers that casing life improves, increasing retreadability, and tire failures decrease. The economic implications of nitrogen tire inflation also were impressive, according to the company:

• Saved 110,000 gallons of diesel and U.S. $285,000 over the nine-month period;

• The value of the extended tire life was not monetized, but could be calculated easily for any fleet that knows their cost/mile for tires; and

• Greenhouse gas emissions were reduced, allowing them to be exchanged for revenue on carbon trading sites. Parker says the study was conducted over a nine-month period in 2006 using a fleet comprising 70 long-haul tractors and 117 trailers, providing 1988 wheel positions. It consisted of 6.1 million tractor miles and 110 million tread miles, and it covered the coldest and hottest months of the year to minimize climate variances, according to the company; the analysis isolated inflation gas as the primary basis for any change in the mean.
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:02 PM   #33
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Just because a PhD conducted a study, it does not mean that the study was good. I fail to see how Nitrogen can affect tread life as much as the study says. Air is 78% Nitrogen. The Nitrogen in tire is dried. Shop air is rarely dry. I would like to see the results of a study where dry shop air was used to inflate the tires.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:18 AM   #34
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Just because a PhD conducted a study, it does not mean that the study was good. I fail to see how Nitrogen can affect tread life as much as the study says. Air is 78% Nitrogen. The Nitrogen in tire is dried. Shop air is rarely dry. I would like to see the results of a study where dry shop air was used to inflate the tires.

I look forward to seeing your test results doctor!
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:44 AM   #35
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I fail to see how Nitrogen can affect tread life as much as the study says.
Probably because it can't... unless the numbers are fudged far enough...
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:51 PM   #36
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I just posted the test that I found. There are also two ther studies that say the same thing. I all know is there are people out there that are smarter than me and I will say it.

But as I mentioned before, I still use just good old air.

Except for the tires I just got on my wife's car. Costco used nitrogen. And I did ask the service manager at Costco about it and they do it because of the free air service that they do for members. They have found the tires to be closer to proper inflation giving more life to the tire and less warranty for short tread life.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:59 PM   #37
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Air vs N2: I'd be surprised if there would be any difference

The old air vs nitrogen issue, eh? To be perfectly honest, I do not see how there could be any difference.

The problem is, that air is made mostly of nitrogen already, and more over, the physical properties of oxygen are very similar to nitrogen. The molecular weight of N2 is pretty much the same as the mean MW of air (28.014 vs 28.964 g/mol), thus the mean diffusivity (and thus any gas leak from imperfect valve) is pretty much the same, the thermal energy is pretty much the same (thermal expansion with due to driving), viscosities are similar, densities are pretty much the same, heat capacities, thermal conductivities, etc. are the pretty much same. Not identical, mind you, but pretty much the same. It thus makes no sense that there would be any difference between using air vs nitrogen.

What is different, of course, are chemical properties. So if someone says, hey, oxygen in air deteriorates the tire from inside, then maybe there is an argument (but then we’d have to deal with why air does not deteriorate the tire from outside, etc.).

The other possible argument is the presence of water in air. Similar arguments and counter arguments to those for oxygen could be made.

As far as the Jalili study cited by hess4all goes, there are numerous technical problems with it, which I wont go into. It does not look like it was peer reviewed, it looks like it was sponsored by IR (though I love their small engines) meaning that there could be a conflict, and most of all, some of conclusions show that there is either no difference between air vs nitrogen, or if there are statistically significant difference (i.e., the difference is real, no matter how small) they are tiny (a tire pumped with air drops from 49.53 psi after some time to 49.35 psi for nitrogen vs 49.20 psi for air -- do you pressure check your tires to hundredths of psi?). This study essentially shows that there is no difference between air and nitrogen.

But the two biggest proofs that I have is that air and nitrogen are pretty much the same
(a) no tire manufacturer seems to recommend the end user to use nitrogen over air;
(b) nobody recommends using gases that would make a really big difference on tires, such as krypton, xenon, sulfur hexafluoride, or perfluoroneopentane on one hand; or helium on the other.

As far as the alleged predominant use of nitrogen on airplane tires or racing tires, I do not know, but I would guess that it is a safety issue rather than performance issue: in both industries fire safety is a huge deal, and the cost difference between air and nitrogen is nominal.

And there is of course the placebo effect -- see Days of Thunder, where Tom Cruise's character wins a race because Robert Duvall's character tells him that his tires are matched to fractions of millimeter.

(Disclosure: R&D in PU foam industry where gas selection is crucial, PhD in chemistry)
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Old 04-04-2014, 02:03 AM   #38
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As far as the Jalili study cited by hess4all goes, there are numerous technical problems with it, which I wont go into. It does not look like it was peer reviewed, it looks like it was sponsored by IR (though I love their small engines) meaning that there could be a conflict, and most of all, some of conclusions show that there is either no difference between air vs nitrogen, or if there are statistically significant difference (i.e., the difference is real, no matter how small) they are tiny (a tire pumped with air drops from 49.53 psi after some time to 49.35 psi for nitrogen vs 49.20 psi for air -- do you pressure check your tires to hundredths of psi?). This study essentially shows that there is no difference between air and nitrogen.
But the two biggest proofs that I have is that air and nitrogen are pretty much the same
I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who thought this report was a prime example of Bad Science. All the hallmarks: Commissioned by a nitrogen machine manufacturer, no peer review, padded with several pages of pseudo calculations to prove low air pressure increases rolling resistance (like that isn't a given) and the above mentioned miniscule difference in leak down rate doubling tire life. The world of science is overpopulated with people ready and willing to whore themselves out to the highest bidder to prove a desired premise or to give bad testimony in lawsuits.
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