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Old 01-12-2013, 12:58 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Caveman CBB View Post
As for the pickups, yes it would have been better to have the gas tank inside the frame, but, at the time nobody knew any better. The lawsuit was just something the lawyers made a lot of money out of. And, lets not forget eventually GM went broke and cost a lot of workers good jobs. Now they all work at wall mart for so little money you can't pay the rent with it. The only people that benefited out of that was the the lawyers. I The pinto might have been a cover up but the biggest problem with it was that there was only one strap holding the gas tank on. The Corvair wasn't bad it's just that Ralph Nader made a lot of money writing a book out of that one. I don't remember the Fiero thing. Wasn't that just a car that didn't make any money??
GM did know very early on about the gas tanks that is why they lost. They decided that it was less expensive to pay for the wrongful deaths and injuries.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:09 PM   #30
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I think it is good that folks (lawyers included) aren't rolling over and accepting faulty/shoddy products. We see too much of that in the RV industry.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:20 AM   #31
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It seems from some of the comments on this thread that some people aren’t really aware of the extent of the dangers presented by these units, so I thought I’d provide a little additional information for your consideration.
Below is a link to a YouTube video created by an RV repair service – Paramount RV Repair. You should take a moment to see what the results of these fires can be. According to their statements on their YouTube video, this RV repair company will no longer work on any Norcold refrigerator units due to the fact that they are unwilling to assume the legal liability of even installing the recall kits.
Also, take a look at the public posting on Billy Thibodeaux’s Premier RV dealership website. They call RV’s with Norcold refrigertors “rolling hydrogen bombs” – one of which exploded on their dealership lot and almost burned up an entire row of their new RV stock. Their dealership has decided that they will not sell any RV units with a Norcold refrigerator in it – nor will the service old ones, or install Norcold replacement units on any coach for any customer. That is a pretty strong statement for an RV dealer to make – calling units with Norcold refrigerators “rolling hydrogen bombs”!
I’ve personally had two Norcold unit failures on two different RV’s. The first was while the RV service tech was trying to figure out why the Norcold refrigerator had quit working. It exploded and shot flames several feet out of the side of the RV. He had walked away from the side of the RV a few feet when it exploded and had he been closer would have been badly burnt, or worse, had he been standing closer to the side of the RV when the explosion happened. We had called the Norcold recall hotline just days before about our unit before this happened and were told that our unit was not within their recall and there were no problems with our unit. It quit working within days of our call to them and we took it into the shop immediately because we were preparing to leave on a long summer trip. Had he not been there to put the fire out our coach would have burned to the ground. We park our coach next to our house, and had it exploded and burned (like many others have) while parked next to our home, we possibly would had our house burn down - as numerous other RV owners have had happen to them at their houses, or the barns that they had their RV's parked in.
Our story is not isolated – there are already more than 2,000 documented RV fires as a result of the failure of Norcold refrigerators in RV’s. At least on person has died as a result of a Norcold fire ($7 Million Products Liability Settlement in Arkansas - Maryland Injury Lawyer Blog) and many others have been injured. The problems have been known by Norcold for more than a decade and they have continued to manufacturer and sell the units with these known defects. Personally, I think it is time that they be brought to task for this corporate bad behavior….
Paramount RV Repair - http://youtu.be/wp2u6d3EQRg
Billy Thibodeaux’s Premiere RV, Inc. - http://www.norcoldrecallclassaction.com/rv-dealer-warning
From this RV dealers website:
To Our Valued Customers & Friends,
For over a decade, Norcold and Dometic RV Absorption Refrigerators, have been burning down travel trailers, motorhomes and buses. Since fire is indiscriminate, damage is often not limited to the RV. The flames also destroy everything surrounding your RV; garages, homes, automobiles, collectibles and life itself. Although both manufactures have taken steps to prevent these mishaps, fires still occur on a very regular basis….
On July 14, 2010 a 2005 Newmar Essex, a very expensive motorhome, burned on my lot. Fortunately quick response from my neighbor, who noticed the smoke, saved an entire row of motorhomes from being destroyed until the fire department arrived.;;;;
In lieu of these rolling hydrogen bombs, I personally recommend that you allow us to remove your absorption type refrigerator, dispose of it properly and replace it with a conventional household 110 volt refrigerator….
To this end, I have decided that until the RV absorption refrigerator manufacturers correct this dangerous condition, we will no longer sell, install, or repair these units. I apologize for the inconvenience that this change in policy will cause you but I am compelled to protect your RV, your safety and absolutely must limit my business’ exposure to this on-going liability…..
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:09 AM   #32
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I don't believe anyone is questioning whether or not a problem exists with the Norcold refrigerator. Rather, the subject of this thread and the topic being questioned is the efficacy of a class action lawsuit and exactly what benefit that might bring to a Norcold refrigerator owner who has (or hasn't) suffered a loss.

Dometic unit in our RV.....not that Dometic doesn't have their own problems.

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Old 01-13-2013, 03:34 PM   #33
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I love my absorption refrigerator and would have nothing else in my RV. A 110 volt one would not work for me.There seems to be a problem with some of the Norcold units and I'm sorry for the loss of people who have lost here RV's because of it. But, I'm not sure calling all absorption refrigerators hydrogen bombs is correct. For one thing there filled with ammonia not hydrogen and for another they have been making absorption refrigerators for as long if not longer then 110 volt electric ones. And, they didn't all blow up. Again, I'm sorry for the loss people have had in this case and it sucks that Norcold by building a few bad units have given the entire industry a bad name.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:17 AM   #34
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I SNIP
But, I'm not sure calling all absorption refrigerators hydrogen bombs is correct. For one thing there filled with ammonia not hydrogen and for another they have been making absorption refrigerators for as long if not longer then 110 volt electric ones.
SNIP.
I wouldn't call them all hydrogen bombs either but you might want to take a look HERE.

This is from the article:

Single pressure absorption refrigeration

A single-pressure absorption refrigerator uses three substances: ammonia, hydrogen gas, and water. At standard atmospheric conditions, ammonia is a gas with a boiling point of -33°C, but a single-pressure absorption refrigerator is pressurized to the point where the ammonia is a liquid. The cycle is closed, with all hydrogen, water and ammonia collected and endlessly reused.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:04 PM   #35
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I wouldn't call them all hydrogen bombs either but you might want to take a look HERE.

This is from the article:

Single pressure absorption refrigeration

A single-pressure absorption refrigerator uses three substances: ammonia, hydrogen gas, and water. At standard atmospheric conditions, ammonia is a gas with a boiling point of -33°C, but a single-pressure absorption refrigerator is pressurized to the point where the ammonia is a liquid. The cycle is closed, with all hydrogen, water and ammonia collected and endlessly reused.
Yup, your right they do have hydrogen in them after all. I was wrong, I apologize. I'm still not going to loose any sleep worried that mine is going to blow up though.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:59 AM   #36
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Yes, as noted, they do have hydrogen in them with the ammonia. When the cooling unit fails this explosive mixture of ammonia and hydrogen is released at about 4000 psi and is both explosive and flammable. The failures occur both when running on propane, or on shore power. Below are three examples from YouTube of the results of these fires:

http://youtu.be/t2mIqkG24OE
http://youtu.be/w-mhmtlfGyY

The link below is to an engineering firms website that has, by their statement “investigated hundreds of Norcold Refrigerator Fires….” and the photos resulting from some of their investigations.
http://www.rvappraisals.com/gallery/norcold-fires.htm
Class action lawsuits would never be necessary if corporations acted responsibly and fairly in how they treat their customers when problems arise. However there are some companies that fail to be willing to do so. They rely on the fact that the individual costs of litigating a problem is so costly that no individual consumer can afford to do so, so they refuse to resolve the problems knowing that most owners will just “suck it up” and go away and pay for the problems themselves.
If you search using Google for terms like “Norcold failures”, “Norcold recalls”, “Norcold fires” and look at the threads on the multiple RV owner forums out there you will see that this isn’t a problem isolated to one or two people. It is a problem experienced by a LARGE GROUP of people. So far more than 2,000 fires have been documented. How many tens of thousands of RV owners do you think have had a cooling unit failure who were lucky enough not to have had a fire? When they turned to Norcold for resolution to their problems many (if not the majority) have been told it’s not Norcold’s problem – suck it up, buy a new cooling unit at $2,000 to $2,500. Many people have been so concerned that they preemptively replaced their Norcold cooling unit with the Amish cooling unit. Others have paid to install Halon fire suppression systems in their RV’s. How many millions of dollars worth of groceries have been lost, vacations ruined as a result of a refrigerator failure? How many people have time after time returned their RV to service depots to once again have a Recall Kit installed, only to have it fail before they make it home from the service center? The RV forum threads are full of people who have had to “suck it up” – replaced their defective equipment, or out of fear preemptively switched out to an electric model, or Amish cooling unit. Installed Halon systems in their coaches. Or, had their coach burn down – some ending up losing their homes because their coach was parked next to it when they burned!
Attorneys don’t go out and create these problems – they respond when out of frustration / desperation someone brings them a problem and says “The company is acting badly and something needs to be done!” Class action lawsuits are almost always (if not always) done on a contingent basis – the attorneys only get paid if the clients prevail. The amount of their compensation is limited by state and federal laws as a percentage of the award and that compensation is closely monitored by the courts from which they are awarded. Additionally, the whole time they are pursuing the matter on an un-paid basis, they are also paying all of the expenses of pursuing that lawsuit for things like engineering investigations, research, witness depositions, etc… The time and expense of bringing a matter like this are huge and the law firms in advance have to pony up with the financial resources to make it happen.
This isn’t a problem that is isolated to one or two RV owners. This isn’t a problem that is created as a result of misuse or a lack of proper maintenance. And, this isn’t a problem that is fixed by the recall kits that have been being installed, revision after revision, year after year, for the last 12 years.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:26 AM   #37
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I truly hope that this lawsuit destroys Thetford and Norcold such that they go completely out of business. There isn't one product that they sell which I absolutely need or want.

I had the Thetford Aria II toilet in my coach originally. That was the Biggest Boat Anchor ever built. Got rid of it for a Dometic Sealand Magnum Opus. Just another example of crap that Thetford has built and distributed.

They have not done one thing to better the RV industry.

I no longer own a Norcold aka NotSoCold. I had Billy Thibodeaux rip out the Norcold 1200 and install a Samsung RF197 last April.

I no longer have to worry about having a Norcold fire.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:42 AM   #38
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I agree with Dr4Film.

I get a laugh at all the folks who think it's so easy to sue and win. It takes years and years to prevail - if you can afford the fight.

Where is the anger at the manufacturers? Or the governing bodies that supposedly regulate this stuff. Their foot-dragging is what makes it come to this.

And really, is a fridge cutting edge rocket science? Has this technology really advanced much is 20+ years? I think you'll find the reason they have a problem is because of the changes they've made to cheapify the product. If they went the way of GM in the 70's and actually calculated the cost of deaths versus correcting the product, then I hope they do end up going out of business.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:04 PM   #39
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I agree with Dr4Film.

I get a laugh at all the folks who think it's so easy to sue and win. It takes years and years to prevail - if you can afford the fight.

Where is the anger at the manufacturers? Or the governing bodies that supposedly regulate this stuff. Their foot-dragging is what makes it come to this.

And really, is a fridge cutting edge rocket science? Has this technology really advanced much is 20+ years? I think you'll find the reason they have a problem is because of the changes they've made to cheapify the product. If they went the way of GM in the 70's and actually calculated the cost of deaths versus correcting the product, then I hope they do end up going out of business.

I agree with you particularly as it relates to the manufacturers who have knowingly incorporated these products into their coaches and the RVIA (RV INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION) that affixes its seal to almost every coach manufacturered as having been built to comply with published ANSI safety standards! Or the words that the RVIA states on their website regarding coaches to which these seals have been affixed to assure the buying public about the quality and safety of the products they are buying? Here are teh words that they tell the buying public:

As you shop for the right vehicle, make sure you look for the oval-shaped Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) seal. RVIA is a national association representing RV manufacturers and parts suppliers who together produce more than 95% of all RVs manufactured in the United States.

As members of RVIA, manufacturers who display the seal must self-certify compliance with more than 500 safety specifications for electrical, plumbing, heating, fire and life safety established under the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) Standard for Recreational Vehicles. Manufacturers are subject to periodic, unannounced plant inspections by RVIA representatives to audit their compliance. Members who fail to maintain an acceptable level of compliance can be expelled from the Association, which prohibits them from displaying the RVIA seal on their products.




Unless they are deaf, dumb, or blind, I would bet that every RV manufacturer in existence has known about the Norcold problems for years. However, they have continued year after year, recall after recall, fire after fire to design and build their coaches with these products.

And regardless of their seal and statements to the contrary, the RVIA (as a mouthpiece to the RV manufacturers) have allowed their seals to be affixed to tens of thousands of RV's, travel trailers, etc... that include a device known to be under recall for more than a decade that catches on fire and can burn a coach to the ground. I'm not certain that I put a whole lot of value on their symbol when it is attached to a coach!
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:42 AM   #40
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Unless they are deaf, dumb, or blind, I would bet that every RV manufacturer in existence has known about the Norcold problems for years. However, they have continued year after year, recall after recall, fire after fire to design and build their coaches with these products.

And regardless of their seal and statements to the contrary, the RVIA (as a mouthpiece to the RV manufacturers) have allowed their seals to be affixed to tens of thousands of RV's, travel trailers, etc... that include a device known to be under recall for more than a decade that catches on fire and can burn a coach to the ground. I'm not certain that I put a whole lot of value on their symbol when it is attached to a coach!

Obviously, they have been BOUGHT off with money just like all of the politicians in this country have been for years. However, that topic is for a different thread.

What I have seen recently when going to RV shows is that the mid to high end RV's are now coming standard with residential fridges installed. If you choose to have a Norcold or Dometic fridge it is considered an option and it will cost a hell of a lot more money.

At least some RV manufacturers are listening to their customers and doing something about it.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:54 AM   #41
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What I don't understand is why they didn't go back to an earlier design. We have a 1994 that is not part of the recall. It always keeps things cold and has been no problem. And since it is not part of the recall I'm assuming it does not have the design flaw.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:03 AM   #42
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My biggest objection is that Norcold is still producing these units the same way with the fire prevention box installed. RV manufacturers should demand a "get well" date for the fire traps & discontinue use of their products if they don't comply.
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