Community Forums

FIRE UP · 05-27-2017, 11:44 AM

Gents,
In the Winnebago section of this forum, I've got a thread about the down and dirty procedure of changing out the front DINOSAUR SONY FLAT screen TV to a new, MADE IN THIS CENTURY LED Samsung TV. It's so far, a fun but, also tedious and painstaking project. Not only did I remove that boat anchor (about 100 lbs) TV from the front but, I removed the entire theoretical "Surround sound" components and, have replaced it with a 5.1 Surround Sound Home Entertainment/DVD player system.

Long story short, the original DHS system was located in my left front lower compartment, just in front of the left front tire. Well, needless to say, I had lots of physical wiring moving, probing, cutting, splicing, SOLDERING, and re-routing of a few thousand feet of speaker wire, in order to get it to the upper right cabinet, where all the other TV stuff is located.

Now, my question for you senior stereo execs is, what kind of wire gauge is REALLY NEEDED for PROPER sound and, the system was and still is, setup with 4 ohm speakers so, is there a need for a change to say, 6 ohm, 8 ohm etc.? By the way, for those that are not all that familiar with a system like ours, the coach is an '04 Itasca Horizon, 36GD with the CAT C-7 330HP. And, TV/Stereo system that was supplied is comprised of (5) 3", small speakers, 3 in the front, and two in the rear section of the dining area. There are also TWO sub woofers, one to the left and low of the driver and the other, at the base of the fridge.

The small 3" speakers have "4 ohm" stamped on the back side. The one woofer I removed and looked at, has no such stamp or I.D.

The unit I purchsed, is an RCA 300 watt (or so the box says) Home Entertainment System, with small, round, 3" cube speakers and a woofer. I kept all the speakers in the box 'cause I'm using all the wall mounted ones I already have. A good buddy of mine helped me pick out this system becuase it said on the box, "4 ohm compatible", 5.1 Surround, Optical Digital Sound Input from TV (I needed that item), and 5 channel.

The speaker connections on the back of this unit, have enough connections for everything in the coach except for the second woofer. Now, I had to extend EVERY speaker wire due to the fact that, the distance from their origin which, is buried inside the dash area, to the upper right forward cabinet, was way too long for the original wires. So, I lengthened all of them which, included the woofers too.

Now, also for those that know, or maybe don't know about these era systems, there is a switch/toggle on the dash labeled "Radio/TV". With that switch, you can switch what comes out of the speakers, either Radio or TV. Well, that switch is part of the reason why, the so called "Surround Sound" really ISN'T SURROUND SOUND! I'm no stereo/TV installation expert but, the good buddy that was helping me with the first phase of this project is, an expert on that. He made a call to Winnebago and, was told in short, IT'S NOT A TRUE SURROUND SOUND system, it's a make believe.

So, what this all means is, the original Magnadyne dash radio sound, is now going to sent to some newly installed, dedicated speakers ONLY! All the rest of the speakers in coach, are dedicated to the TV system, ONLY! So, that "TV/RADIO" toggle in the dash, has been put to rest, forever.

So, now, the input I'd like to have from you real stereo/radio/TV/home entertainment install specialists would be:

1. As stated, (5) of my speakers are only 4 ohm, THREE INCH speakers.
The original wiring to them is around 16-18 ga wiring. I've extended all of those wires with the same size/gauge wiring, IS THAT OK!

2. The original woofers are wired with maybe, one size larger, maybe 14 ga. I cannot really tell. I extended those wires with 14 ga to the HES. (Home Entertainment System), is that OK?

3. Being that those original speakers are only 3", and are 4 ohm, would be be of any benefit, to replace those with like-size 6 or 8 ohm speakers?

4. The way the system is designed, the only SPEAKING/VOICE for TV, is emitted from the one, single, center THREE INCH SPEAKER. All others are for background music, sound effects etc. So, in order to hear it from the couch or even the dining table, you have to crank it up pretty good, almost all the way.

5. It really doesn't sound distorted when you do this but, I'm not in favor of needing to crank it up that far, just to hear what's being said. There are adjustments in the remote for the new system. We have taylored it to where we think is somewhat correct for appropriate sound, from each section.

There is much more to be said here but, you get the idea, I think. Any input (no pun intended) would be deeply appreciated. We live in Lake Havasu City AZ so, it's a small town with not much in the way of expertise in Home Entertainment systems.
Scott

cruzbill · 05-27-2017, 11:54 AM

I'm not a real expert in things stereo, but as for the impedance, 4 ohm is fine. Impedance (I'll get dinged for this, I'm sure) is like resistance, the more speakers you wire in parallel, the lower the impedance and the harder your stereo amp has to work (read produce heat). Since your amp is rated for 4 ohm speakers, you should be good. Monster Wire PR may say otherwise, but wire gauge size on a stereo system doesn't matter, your 14-22 ga should do just fine. I'm in a similar pickle, my dash stereo (sounds terrible) is not hooked up to the surround sound system, no switch on my rig. One of these days I'll get it squared away.

MikeD1 · 05-27-2017, 12:12 PM

Was in the home audio biz for 30+ years. The wires you have should be fine. Going up gauge sizes isn't going to make a noticeable difference in your system. If the system is working and sounding okay now, substituting speakers with higher impedance ratings is probably not going to accomplish much if anything. IF the impedance were too low, your rec would likely do an auto shutdown, or overheat and shutdown. Speaker sound quality really has nothing directly related to impedance, i.e. an 8ohm speaker that is otherwise identical to a 4 ohm version isn't going to sound any different. So yep, you should be fine as is!

keymastr · 05-27-2017, 12:29 PM

Mike is correct, your speaker wire is adequate and is not the reason you have to crank the volume so high. That is a combination of the relatively low power of the amp and the inefficiency of the speakers. Most all in one box sets are not great in either of those respects. I would be willing to bet that true RMS wattage for that system is probably closer to 35 watts than 300.

As long as the sound is clear and you can hear it I would not worry about it.

MSHappyCampers · 05-27-2017, 01:01 PM

I agree with what others have said. Your wiring is fine. My big concern is the subwoofers. I have never seen a surround sound system that uses two subwoofers! If those subwoofers had regular speaker wire going to them that's gonna be a problem. All modern surround sound amplifiers, at least ones that are of acceptable quality, have LFE outputs for the subwoofer. That output uses coaxial cable and the subwoofer has a built-in amplifier. How did you connect the subwoofer wires to the amp?

FIRE UP · 05-27-2017, 02:42 PM

Wow Gang,
I really appreciate the feedback on this subject. Let me first say something here. The CEO and I are not LOUD MUSIC fans. Even in today's world, when we visit the kids (about 30 and 36 respectively), I have to TELL them to turn the music down when we're trying to have a conversation. So, with that being said, the level at which we watch TV or, listen to any music, is what I'd call, just above say, medium volume etc. But, after listening to and being around sirens sand air horns for my entire career, coupled with banging on metal while being a fabricator for the same amount of time, my ears have been treated pretty badly and, are, to say the least, not all that sensitive.

So, when it does come time to watch TV, I do have to crank it just a bit higher to hear todays conversations, dialog, acting scenes etc. And even then, we both put on closed caption just so we can tell what was said. Anyway, the system, as it stands, seems to be working very well. I'm really glad to hear that, spending money on newer higher impedance speakers and or, re-wiring any part of this, pretty much won't do any good. That makes me really happy since, I never make crimp connections any more.

Every connection I make, if at all possible, is SOLDERED. That includes all this stuff I just did for the TV system and, any trailer wiring, any electrical 12V stuff.

Now, Happy Campers commented and asked about the TWO sub woofers. All I can say is this. Winne/Itasca built this coach, with two sub woofers, located in the areas listed above.

I just recently read a real good write up on the factory system. While it may have been GREAT quality back then, it just didn't seem to provide GOOD quality today. So, hence, this is why the great REMODEL of the TV/Amp/system.

As for how both sub woofers are connected, at present, both of them ARE NOT connected. Only one is. The rear one. The type of connections are the pressure pinch ones. That is, you hold back a tab and, that opens a slot. You then insert the wire for that particular tab/speaker. Well, that's the way the sub(s) are connected. These subs are not complicated, high end subs. They're just larger speakers, a bit heavier duty but, just larger. On the original test, we had both subs wired together, and attached to the HTS. It worked but, not sure if it was really any better sounding in the coach or not. Right now, it's just the rear since we don't sit in the drivers seat or in the front of the coach, when the TV's on . So that one is not connected at present.

While there may be actual home theater systems, combination systems, (using both radios and TVs) in residences that work well, based on my abilities, coin, and what's already built within the walls of this RV, the mods I can make in terms of this simple "Home Theater System" install, is about the best move, in my opinion.

If I had gutted this coach, torn half the walls apart so I could really get into a fancy system, maybe, MAYBE I'd set up a much more high end system, kind-a like the ones you see in all the celebrity motor homes. I pretty much figure I'll never be there so, this will do just fine. Thanks again for all your help and advice and expertise.

MSHappyCampers · 05-27-2017, 03:03 PM

Does the new woofer in the box have regular speaker connections, not the coax LFE input?

Hgrace56 · 05-27-2017, 04:51 PM

14 gauge is more than enough for an RV sound system.

bokobird · 05-27-2017, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hgrace56

14 gauge is more than enough for an RV sound system.

I'm not so sure, some RV's have some very sophisticated systems

Ernie. · 05-27-2017, 08:30 PM

Pinch type wire connection for a sub makes me think they are passive, not powered

FIRE UP · 05-27-2017, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSHappyCampers

Does the new woofer in the box have regular speaker connections, not the coax LFE input?

Yep, pinch connections.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie.

Pinch type wire connection for a sub makes me think they are passive, not powered

Yep, these subs (the ones in the coach) just have speaker connections, no other wires or, in any form, power going to them. Yes Sir, this is definitely NOT a high end system. But, it works.
Scott

Ernie. · 05-28-2017, 05:44 AM

You are filling a much smaller area with sound, I bought into the hype when I put a home theater in our basement, all monster cable wiring, energy speakers, 106" screen, yada yada. The more I think about it though, we have AARP qualified ears and eyes. Bottom line, how much bang do you need for your buck?

ROAquaman · 05-28-2017, 06:56 AM

Speaker wire size is fine.
Go with 4 ohm replacement speakers of good quality. (Polk, JL, etc.) Better quality brand speakers will make the most difference. I would replace subs also if it's economically possible.
Most head units today will accept many inputs. Run you TV through your receiver to utilize your entire speaker system and you can eliminate the old "Stereo/TV" switch from the system.

FIRE UP · 05-28-2017, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie.

You are filling a much smaller area with sound, I bought into the hype when I put a home theater in our basement, all monster cable wiring, energy speakers, 106" screen, yada yada. The more I think about it though, we have AARP qualified ears and eyes. Bottom line, how much bang do you need for your buck?

Ernie,
Thank you for your input here. Yep, I was ready to "dive in" and get a wazoo system and spend a fair amount of money when we were out shopping for replacement systems/speakers etc. But, we ended up with a cheapy from Walmart. So far, it's working just fine, in all preliminary tests.
Scott

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROAquaman

Speaker wire size is fine.
Go with 4 ohm replacement speakers of good quality. (Polk, JL, etc.) Better quality brand speakers will make the most difference. I would replace subs also if it's economically possible.
Most head units today will accept many inputs. Run you TV through your receiver to utilize your entire speaker system and you can eliminate the old "Stereo/TV" switch from the system.

ROAquaman
I thank you too for your input here. I might cruise around on net (Amazon) for some potentially better quality 4 ohm speakers, that size wize, will fit and work. as for the Woofers, they might be low quality but, they're so far, in the test runs with this cheaping amp/DVD player, they're doing a fair job.

As for running the TV through it, that's exactly what I stated earlier. The "TV/RADIO" switch that Winne installed on the dash, is now defunct. It serves no purpose what so ever. I will be installing some dedicated speakers for the dash radio. So the radio and TV will now be totally separate in speaker operations.
Scott