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Old 12-15-2019, 06:56 PM   #71
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I assume a lot of owners will do what we are doing with our 30 year-old Holiday Rambler...maintain and upgrade. Pass it on to our Kids. Some coaches are that worthy. It might be kinda Log Cabin In The Woods but that is it's allure...back to a simpler time.
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:18 PM   #72
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I'd buy a vintage coach in a heartbeat if I could find one that was well maintained and suited our needs. We've driven around the country a fair amount in the past 10 years. My best guesstimate is we've clocked more than 60,000 miles. We frequently see old RV sitting in the yards of private residences as we travel the back roads. Most look like they're there for the duration. I doubt many could be started. And if they could, I'm not sure they'd be safe.

However, and I think this goes to the OP question, we don't see a lot of high end diesel coaches. I think there are some obvious reasons for this. First and foremost, they are expensive. When they're bought they most likely are bought by individuals who have lots of money. Enough money to make sure they are properly maintained. Many are housed in RV garages and show like new when 20 years old. That is largely due to being covered. But also because most have expensive full body paint. I don't know much about paint, but our full body paint soon to be 15 year old gasser still looks pretty good. I believe, that's because it's a California coach and not exposed to the harsh elements of the Eastern part of the country.

Another obvious reason we don't see as many high end coaches planted on rural properties is because not as many were sold. The market for high end coaches is pretty small by comparison to entry level gassers.

So if we look for a replacement motorhome and don't downsize to something the DW will drive (that's under 30 feet) it will be a 2000 to 2007 vintage Country Coach, or comparable diesel. And I'd willingly pay a significant amount of money to keep it running if it's bones were good.
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Old 12-15-2019, 10:00 PM   #73
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Many of you write on this site professing your unwavering love for the old coaches because you claim the quality was better and they don't make them like they used to.
Also you claim benefits with the pre-DEF units on the diesels.
Lastly, lots of comments of the non computerized lower tech pro's of that generation of coach whether gas or diesel.

Im not here to argue with you ..... you might be right?

Im not writing this to say "good or bad" or "pro or con" the ideas above.
But for the sake of this conversation, lets say the ten year span of coaches of 1998-2008. That makes these "golden years" coaches now as old as 21, and as young as 11 years old.

So to get to the point I am trying to make....

What happens in the next years, when there are fewer left to buy, or the only ones left are really getting past their prime? Eventually these "golden years" coaches are all going to age out by milage or time, but like all things, every year that goes by there will be less of them. So when its your time and you have to part with your "golden years" coach.... What will you buy if they are few and far between, and the ones that are left are mostly undesirable? You can find 90's Prevost's for under $100k but less of them around and not a huge market.
The reason Im bringing this these questions is with all the posts complaining about todays current quality issues with ALL brands... Todays new coaches are going to be those 21-11 year old coaches many of us might be forced into buying in the future if looking for used or a certain price.

Thoughts?

This one is near and dear to my heart. My past passion was airplanes, especially old airplanes. At one point I rescued a World War II C-45. No wings, no engines, no instruments. The landing gear had no wheels and was buried in the mud. Five months later we flew it home, working only on weekends. To balance things out my "new" airplane was 50 years old, a Cessna 182.

I prefer older coaches. Wife and sold out gas Pace Arrow (excellent brand) when a DP down the street came up for the same amount as we sold the Pace Arrow for. The DP is a 2000 model that started with 23,000 miles. We are now up to 34,000. I have added numerous electronics devices, as my electrical engineering background makes that easy. Very inexpensive to purchase and easy to repair or replace as the components are generic in function.

I can control each function manually (slides, jacks etc) or even override in an emergency. However I can see and/or control everything with my cell phone, but if that craps out, I can still function. But you have to repair and inspect. I don't pay a monthly note, but I do put some back for maintenance. Over the years I have found most times (but not always) anything mechanical will tell you when it needs attention.

So new vs old, old will always win.

Bruce Deville
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Old 12-16-2019, 04:51 AM   #74
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re:
computer-controlled vehicles

Are you reading about the children playing with computers to control the computer-steering on newer vehicles?
To take control of computer-controlled brakes?

Sometimes, they allow the disabled vehicle to gracefully glide into a ditch.
Other times, their intent is malicious, steering the disabled vehicle into traffic or off a bridge.

We decided against computer-controlled vehicles after we read a long-term report in Car-And-Driver magazine.
The computer in the window motor quit communicating with the computer in the dash, so the computer in the engine sent the transmission computer into 'limp mode' until the dealer could fuss with the innerds of the door.

Now... I'm all about having fun, but there is such a thing as too much fun.
Can you imagine your vehicle stuck in 'limp mode' during an excursion through a vibrant section of town?
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Old 12-16-2019, 05:08 AM   #75
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There are over 2 billion reciprocating, hydrocarbon fuel burning engines on this planet [that includes land, water an air vehicles, as well as generators etc.

The dream of soon replacing these 2 billion plus fuel burning engines with electric motors is just that... a dream. A good dream, a worthy dream, but for many manufacturing and power access charging reasons... it is currently just a dream. I'm not saying that eventually [by end of this century] that electric motors will not have fulfilled a fair percentage of the power-drive market [maybe even as much as 25%]. That's over 500 million vehicle propulsion and generator electric motors in use; still leaving some 2 billion + reciprocating, hydrocarbon fuel burning engines in use.

Now, let's look at reality: There is quickening global warming and therefrom intolerable climate and weather change problems at hand, that need to be [i.e. must be] soon addressed and rectified. Substantial requirement now exists to stop putting additional carbon dioxide [CO2] into the atmosphere and oceans, from Non-Cyclical, Carbon Positive crude oil and other types of fossil fuel burning. In answer to this global need and circumstance, we are going to pull CO2 out of atmosphere to produce Full-Cycle, Carbon Neutral liquid hydrocarbon fuels that will supplant crude oil [and other fossil fuels] and that last well into the 22nd Century for fuel production [in their Full-Cycle basis]. More will be revealed in near future years as this global need grows and international governments' funds become available.
Why are we talking about global warming on an RV forum?!?
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Old 12-16-2019, 06:13 AM   #76
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Understand the problem completely.wife ,son and I ended up buying g a 2001 Monaco 34 ft gas model.floor plan worked,with 48,000 miles engine condition worked for his and being 3rd owners ,documented the lineage worked....has 2015 tires so that is the first thing to be addressed.roof had been maintained so leaks were no issue..small things...had no power going to leveled control unit,replaced both ex manifold gaskets on the big ol Chevy and has some spots of clear coat peeling but other than that it's been ideal for us.with the price just south of 15k no kidneys were sold before the purchase.this coach in its day was. To us a high end coach and as per included in paperwork retailed for 113,000 dollars..point is there are still some incredible deals out there..good luck with the search
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Old 12-16-2019, 06:25 AM   #77
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I have an 07 coach and for the most part, all of the components used then are available in some form today. Either the parts are still in production or there is an upgrade path available. As for the idea of quality I think in terms of reliability. A few years back we went on a Canadian Maritime rally with I would say 18 other coaches. The coaches ranged from 1990 to 2014. It became somewhat of a symposium on coach repair. What was interesting was that the bulk of the repairs were on coaches newer than 2006. For me at the end of the day, what ever I would spend on a coach on repairs/upgrades on a good used coach is significantly less than what its new counterpart would cost me. Both will need work.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:01 AM   #78
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Why are we talking about global warming on an RV forum?!?
To answer your question:

Because... Our RV community and the boating community [in both of which I am an avid member] can become strong national and international advocates as well as fuel-product-usage constituents for helping to stop global warming. Therefore expanding use of the "new-fuel" source that will keep our RVs, boats, bikes, cars, trucks and planes well in a broad range of ongoing usability while negating the emission of "new carbon dioxide" into atmosphere. As a matter of fact... the new-fuels contained inside our vehicles and play-toys' fuel tanks will offer large assistance to "Drawdown" the currently overwhelming Carbon Dioxide "Parts Per Million" [PPM] content that exists in and overburdens Earth's atmosphere and oceans. The more filled fuel tanks are - all the better. And, by using the new-fuel source to combat global warming it will be increased assistance for more and more new RVs and boats to come into existence so that their fuel tanks can also be filled! We've got a win, win, win situation on our hands!!

In direct variation to Non-Cyclical, Carbon Positive fossil fuel usage; wherefrom new carbon dioxide is a continuous exhaust into atmosphere. These new-source fuels will be Full-Cycle Carbon Neutral liquid hydrocarbon fuels wherefrom NO new carbon dioxide is created or exhausts into atmosphere. This new-source fuel solar-heat-powered manufacturing and production technique, for amply powering the over two [2] billion combustion engines around the world, will become one of the mainstays in civilization's 21st Century process that can "Save Earth's Ecosystem".

Without going into decades of compiled inventive details for producing and maintaining this new-source fuel availability. I assure you that its Full-Cycle contents are based on atmospheric contained Carbon Dioxide PPM as its base ingredient. For reasons and in ways this fuel source will remain viable and available for Full-Cycle, Carbon Neutral fuel creation well into the 22nd Century; and, beyond that point if required or desired by civilization. Carbon Dioxide based... Full-Cycle, Carbon Neutral fungible, drop-in gasoline, diesel and jet fuels will become a global energy mainstay.

Reasons behind the absolute requirement for this fuel source alteration:

1. Human caused atmospheric and oceanic global warming is a really dangerous current entity [death defying physical entry] into the history of civilization. This global warming sequence is due to situations caused primarily by human actions, that can be rectified [hopefully before it's too late to "Save Earth's Ecosystem"] only by human preventative-reactions; e.g., global span atmosphere, ocean and dry land content adjustments as well as international pollution-creation abatements.
2. Global warming is empowering many phases of unacceptable climate change.
3. Climate change is creating untenable alterations in weather developments, seasonal food growth conditions and increasing storm-disaster occurrences, as well as drastically altering the world-important pH balance in oceans; which are on the course of heading toward "Dead Oceans" - in the too near future. Not to mention rising ocean levels that by end 21st Century to mid 22nd Century will swamp coastal cities around the globe. Just think of the worldwide international-instability implosion due to social and economic downturns of two billion people who rely on sea life for primary food source and the billion displaced persons due to coastal dwellings swamped by rising tides. Global Mayhem Will Result!
4. Initiator and main culprit of absorbing solar-heat-rays [that is causing atmospheric global warming] is too much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere which gets absorbed into the oceans; and, warms the oceans too.
5. Human race actions from this point on is the only thing that can secure human race future wellbeing.

I've placed ample insight above this paragraph as to what's happening, what needs to happen and what I plan to help make happen. Therefore, I just want to say. I've been into this for two decades; I know of what I speak. There are a bunch of global sized big jobs to accomplish... lots of new industry with millions of new employment opportunities that will be created. I look forward to working with every person who also wants to help protect the future for civilization.

Please feel free to PM me if you's like to learn more. And, enjoy every day of your life.

RM Art
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:14 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by BikesandGuns View Post
Why are we talking about global warming on an RV forum?!?
Because some people are obsessed with it, have a desire to make Gore and those like him even more wealthy,, need something to talk about around the Kool Aid cooler, and/or like the price of fuels in CA more than the those of the rest of the country. You are behind the times, Global Warming is now Climate Change. Next year it may be something else.
Anyone feeling guilty can send me a check instead of Gore and I’ll plant a tree for you.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:58 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Captn John View Post
Because some people are obsessed with it, have a desire to make Gore and those like him even more wealthy,, need something to talk about around the Kool Aid cooler, and/or like the price of fuels in CA more than the those of the rest of the country. You are behind the times, Global Warming is now Climate Change. Next year it may be something else.
Anyone feeling guilty can send me a check instead of Gore and I’ll plant a tree for you.

*******************
Yup, polar bear population is UP...
Global warming boat got stuck in the ice & had to rescue them with a whirly bird..
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:33 AM   #81
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We purchased a 2000 HR Vacationer in 2016 from original owner with low miles and in really good condition.
It's the Ford F53 Chassis with the Triton V10, plenty of power and pretty good mileage.
It has 1 living room/kitchen slide which is fine with me and my wife. The only real thing it needs is a new paint job and my guess is because in the late 90's early 2000's when the were still experimenting with lead free paint it was not very durable anyway that's next on the list.
July 2019 we had a water leak and State Farm paid to remove all the floor covering to verify that there was no subfloor damage and to everyone's surprise the entire subfloor looked brand new on a 19 year old Class A!
We love this rig and have no plans to get rid of it because we know people that spent big money for new rigs that have only been a nightmare for them.
Stories end we love our older rig!Click image for larger version

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Old 12-16-2019, 09:53 AM   #82
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Oldie but Goodie

Hmmm....I guess we won't have any problem selling our 2008 Tiffin Phaeton 36 QSH when our new home is finished being built. That's comforting.
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:57 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by wfterry View Post
We purchased a 2000 HR Vacationer in 2016 from original owner with low miles and in really good condition.
It's the Ford F53 Chassis with the Triton V10, plenty of power and pretty good mileage.
It has 1 living room/kitchen slide which is fine with me and my wife. The only real thing it needs is a new paint job and my guess is because in the late 90's early 2000's when the were still experimenting with lead free paint it was not very durable anyway that's next on the list.
July 2019 we had a water leak and State Farm paid to remove all the floor covering to verify that there was no subfloor damage and to everyone's surprise the entire subfloor looked brand new on a 19 year old Class A!
We love this rig and have no plans to get rid of it because we know people that spent big money for new rigs that have only been a nightmare for them.
Stories end we love our older rig!Attachment 269610
I agree with your post: Sure is nice having a classy older RV that was well maintained by original owner, has low miles, is comfortable and fun to drive!
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:04 AM   #84
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First off you are talking about the years that began the heyday of RVing so lots were built. That will mean many will still be around down the road. Much more so than earlier years before RVing became so popular. Secondly many folks are taking better care of them due to the expense involved in original purchase. Miles on them have little bearing as we don't put that much on when compared to the commercial vehicles. Lastly I feel that once a new coach has been used & gotten the bugs worked out, (quality coaches to begin with) there will be some fine ones available in great working condition. Hopefully this will happen so many futures RVers will be able to enjoy what we are.
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