PG&E shut us off again, but who needs them....?

[jcussen]

I have been running my S&B deep freezer off a 12 year old inverter and $400 worth of used solar panels for 10 years. Have changed out the two 4d batteries once. Living on the gulf coast, have learned that it is possible to lose power for weeks on end, and having blocked roads where getting to a gas or diesel station to refuel can be difficult. Don't know where the break even point is when considering cost of electricity vs the cost of my setup on solar alone, but do know that it would only take one time losing a thousand dollars worth of food, to make it well worthwhile.

[Hit_the_Rhod]

Originally Posted by R.Wold

Im having trouble imagining anyone else's opinion that matters.

So if you see little or no value in solar for RVs, thats great. I’m comfortable with that. But then I don't criticize or ridicule others for doing things differently. I celebrate it.

Happy sailing....

On your comment in RED above: Well Said! You sound a lot like me, I don't have to impress anyone but myself!



On the last paragraph about solar, I see a LOT of value in it, especially for boats, because I still haven't figured out how to carry enough extension cord to power accessories I may want to run while anchored off of, say an island in the Bahama's. And I really don't care to run a genny 24/7. Most people figure the cost of generator power at how much fuel alone costs . . .not the maintenance a well maintained generator demands, or the cost of the generator to begin with, but they will be the first ones to tear down someone spending $6k on solar! News flash for those who are interested, to purchase new, or replace my Onan 7.5kw diesel generator in my RV, the cost would be NORTH of $7k! To purchase or replace say a comparable Northern Lights Marine Generator would be substantially more . . . so more cost than your $6k for solar, less maintenance, no fuel purchase, and quieter as well. Batteries of the proper capacity will hold you over the night when solar isn't available too, personally I would still like a generator as a BACKUP to solar, but not as my primary power, but that's just me

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by Hit_the_Rhod

On your comment in RED above: Well Said! You sound a lot like me, I don't have to impress anyone but myself!



On the last paragraph about solar, I see a LOT of value in it, especially for boats, because I still haven't figured out how to carry enough extension cord to power accessories I may want to run while anchored off of, say an island in the Bahama's. And I really don't care to run a genny 24/7. Most people figure the cost of generator power at how much fuel alone costs . . .not the maintenance a well maintained generator demands, or the cost of the generator to begin with, but they will be the first ones to tear down someone spending $6k on solar! News flash for those who are interested, to purchase new, or replace my Onan 7.5kw diesel generator in my RV, the cost would be NORTH of $7k! To purchase or replace say a comparable Northern Lights Marine Generator would be substantially more . . . so more cost than your $6k for solar, less maintenance, no fuel purchase, and quieter as well. Batteries of the proper capacity will hold you over the night when solar isn't available too, personally I would still like a generator as a BACKUP to solar, but not as my primary power, but that's just me

My “quiet Panda” on my sailboat (2002 Beneteau 50) was a $12,000 generator! I ran it one hour/day to keep the fridge up. But thats another story.

I like quality stuff and given the mobile application, I chose Victron for my inverter, charger(s) and LG panels. As I mentioned you could build a system with similar performance for half the cost with a cheaper inverter and lead/acid batteries, but it would take up more space and weigh four times as much.

Anyway whether or not it enhances anything is so ridiculously subjective that I question how that parameter ever became an issue. Guess I hit a nerve.....

For me the biggest benefit is that i dont have to listen to a generator. Try to put a price tag on that! Talk about subjective......

[Hit_the_Rhod]

Originally Posted by R.Wold

My “quiet Panda” on my sailboat (2002 Beneteau 50) was a $12,000 generator! I ran it one hour/day to keep the fridge up. But thats another story.

I like quality stuff and given the mobile application, I chose Victron for my inverter, charger(s) and LG panels. As I mentioned you could build a system with similar performance for half the cost with a cheaper inverter and lead/acid batteries, but it would take up more space and weigh four times as much.

Anyway whether or not it enhances anything is so ridiculously subjective that I question how that parameter ever became an issue. Guess I hit a nerve.....

For me the biggest benefit is that i dont have to listen to a generator. Try to put a price tag on that! Talk about subjective......

Boat we are looking at has a Northern Lights marine generator, 3 years old with sound surround box, and water cooled (raw to antifreeze). The cost of the generator alone 3 years ago was just shy of $15k, not including removal of old and installation of the new one . . .

[R.Wold]

Yeah thats like our Panda - sound box, liquid cooled (sea water heat exchanger) diesel. Expensive! I was quoting a price from 17 years ago. (Wow - time flys...) But it was a nice unit...I guess if they put those in RVs I would be less opposed to using them. But then theres the price bump. Even some Dynamat or other sound deadening would help inside but Im equally opposed to the noise pollution outside. Others, many others, seem less concerned. I get a little irritable when I hear generators running all day.

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by Dav L

How about sharing some education on reuse of e-auto battery packs for RV usage?
Where did you buy them - craigslist? junkyard?
How much did you pay?
Where you able to determine how much cell capacity was left before you purchased? How did you test if so? Or just took a chance?
Sounds like you had to modify the cell configuration (2/3 of a leaf battery pack...)? Couldn't you use the rest of the battery pack in a different location? Or was the 1/3 not used bad cells?
Was it easy to retrofit?
How many volts are each cell? How many combined volts is it wired for?
Did you use a conventional lithium RV / Solar charge and monitoring system?
How much does the battery pack weigh?
Any concerns with lithium meltdown? Any stopgaps to minimize fire damage?

Thanx!

Hey DavL, we got a little sidetracked and off topic here and I probably left you hanging on a couple points.

First, the chemistry and configuration and capacity of these batteries is always changing and improving and Im not qualified or energetic enough to get too far down in the weeds on it. But in short (I hope), these are different chemistry than the “12v” (4 3.6v cells) LiFePO batteries that look like a grp, 31 and are sold for RV use, and also different chemistry from Tesla and mobile device batteries that have caused safety concerns.

Second, proper management is all thats necessary to prevent damage and hazards. This means multi point chargers rather than simple hi/low. Which is why 12v panels and simple chargers are fine with LiFePO and not for these. My panels are residential (315w) and my cells are 4.2v in groups of 8. I charge them to 4.1v max. That gives me a high of 32.8v and my min is around 24v. I have 24 modules with 2 cells/module so you can see the versatility of the configuration of the Leaf batteries is not only handy but essential. To confuse things a bit more my Victron 24/3000 will only charge to a little over 28v so I need sun to get a full charge. Cant do it just plugged in to a pedestal. That said, Im almost always fully charged before noon.

Third, technology is always improving as mentioned above, so these numbers are no longer current. My battery was around 30kwh new. As of 2017 they were up to 40. Now for 2019 Ive read that they are up to 60kwh with changes in chemistry, density, configuration, etc. Also packaging has improved to allow better cooling.

The best thing to do is google Nissan Leaf Battery Chemistry and Use, and you’ll learn all you could ever want to know about size, weight, safety, configuration, chemistry, and more.

Using this technology is certainly more complex and initially more expensive, but you also get a lot more power for the weight and size of the batteries and far longer life (discharge cycles) and greater usefulness (deeper discharge). So in the long run this is more cost effective than lead/acid.

One thing is certain: just based on longevity, I’ll never buy lead/acid, including AGM, for coach batteries again.

[nvs4602]

Sounds like California should start the green new deal as a test state. Everyone can switch to solar and wind for electric. Stop driving gas vehicles etc... you are already living like Venezuela lol

[jcussen]

Originally Posted by nvs4602

Sounds like California should start the green new deal as a test state. Everyone can switch to solar and wind for electric. Stop driving gas vehicles etc... you are already living like Venezuela lol

Good idea! Probably will work, but till then, will be fracking in Texas.

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by nvs4602

Sounds like California should start the green new deal as a test state. Everyone can switch to solar and wind for electric. Stop driving gas vehicles etc... you are already living like Venezuela lol

I could go back to horses, and SF would probably welcome piles of manure in their streets, but then we’d have to put catalytic converters under the horse’ tails

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by Hit_the_Rhod

News flash for those who are interested, to purchase new, or replace my Onan 7.5kw diesel generator in my RV, the cost would be NORTH of $7k! To purchase or replace say a comparable Northern Lights Marine Generator would be substantially more . . . so more cost than your $6k for solar, less maintenance, no fuel purchase, and quieter as well. Batteries of the proper capacity will hold you over the night when solar isn't available too, personally I would still like a generator as a BACKUP to solar, but not as my primary power, but that's just me

I do understand. One year I got shock when the power bill came in on my yacht bill. I use $5/year in electric and 5 gallons of fuel. Apparently a large power boat pulled into the guest dock and plugged into my pedestal to run the AC.

Before retiring to the MH we would boat camp. One year there was a rare heat advisory. I needed to get DW to a Hampton Inn for the AC. Dropped her off at the ER and she spent the night after getting stints put in. The scary part was when she was telling the doctor how long has symptoms. We had been to Yellowstone and raced the boat the weekend before.

My boat does not have a generator or AC. I do have two small solar panels to maintain batteries in winter..

My propane Onan is neither smelly or noisy. About the same sound level the AC.

My $88 HF generator is noisy and smelly. Being a clever guy I find a way not to let the noise or smell bother me. Not to worried the $109 replacement cost.

Of course it your money!

The Kool Aid comes in when it is government using the same logic to make bad choices that affect others.

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by nvs4602

Sounds like California should start the green new deal as a test state. Everyone can switch to solar and wind for electric. Stop driving gas vehicles etc... you are already living like Venezuela lol

Let me point out California is not all that green if you look at miles driven and electricity imported. There are huge natural gas reserves but an even larger pipeline from Texas and NM.

Texas will let me boondock on the GOM for free. NM will let me boondock at the boat ramp for $8/night.

California has invested a fortune in 'no parking 2 am to 4 am' signs.

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by followingsea

Let me point out California is not all that green if you look at miles driven and electricity imported. There are huge natural gas reserves but an even larger pipeline from Texas and NM.

Texas will let me boondock on the GOM for free. NM will let me boondock at the boat ramp for $8/night.

California has invested a fortune in 'no parking 2 am to 4 am' signs.

California ain't green at all - its all a bunch of BS smoke and mirrors driving out employers and making life more difficult - and expensive - for the lowest income residents - the folks that the current “leaders” supposedly represent. The ones that keep voting for them.

California green? Absolute hypocrisy! Electric cars? Where does the electricity come from? Ethanol? How much fossil fuels does it take to produce it and what is the impact of the subsidies? Ridiculously high Gas tax? I can afford it, but low income voters cant.

And just who ends up paying any tax increases on the wealthy, the producers, the businesses? The end user of whatever goods and services are taxed. And who does it hurt he most? The lowest SES residents. And yet the majority here still votes for the same old defective, ignorant, misguided crowd of so called leaders

Socialism destroys economies and as someone astutely pointed out earlier here in this thread, if you don't think so, just take a quick look at oil-rich Venezuela.

So go ahead and burn on my state all you want - we got it coming!

Ok rant off, back on topic, hope I didn't violate any rules here. Whew! You guys got me going there for a minute.

Ok rant back on for a minute, It should be Blue, not Green! The world is over 70% water and the oceans are probably the most important factor in preserving life as we know it (the actual agenda of environmentalists - it has nothing do with caring about the planet) here. So they got it wrong way back when, and they've been wrong ever since! Blue, not green!

Ok rant really off....

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by R.Wold

...

Electric cars? Where does the electricity come from? Ethanol? How much fossil fuels does it take to produce it and what is the impact of the subsidies? ......

Actually those things and many others were in the 2005 Energy Bill.

California causes problems by taking things to the extreme before finding out how well they work.

For example solar PV. If you are going to use resources to make solar panels they should be placed where they make the most electricity. Mandates should be small initially so that economic burden does not affect the economy.

Processing excess energy out of animal feed is a well established engineering process. It is not about using US produced fossil fuels. It is about creating a market for American farmers and about showing oil producing competition that we can grow what we need.

There is excess energy in our semi-arid forests and dairy farm manure which causes local environmental problems. There numerous examples of these problems being solved with electricity being produced.

And it is an easy sell to communities with these issues.

Sorry not enough glamour for Hollywood, SF, LA or Sacramento.

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by followingsea

Actually those things and many others were in the 2005 Energy Bill.

California causes problems by taking things to the extreme before finding out how well they work.

For example solar PV. If you are going to use resources to make solar panels they should be placed where they make the most electricity. Mandates should be small initially so that economic burden does not affect the economy.

Processing excess energy out of animal feed is a well established engineering process. It is not about using US produced fossil fuels. It is about creating a market for American farmers and about showing oil producing competition that we can grow what we need.

There is excess energy in our semi-arid forests and dairy farm manure which causes local environmental problems. There numerous examples of these problems being solved with electricity being produced.

And it is an easy sell to communities with these issues.

Sorry not enough glamour for Hollywood, SF, LA or Sacramento.

May not be glamorous, but it makes sense.i think there is some bio-mass elec generation in Nevada, but I dent know much about it.