Police asks to search - would you allow

[Solo_RV_Guy]

My father was an attorney. His advice to me, 45 years ago was this: "probable cause" is whatever the man with the badge can get the man in the robe to believe when your case goes to trial months later. Don't rely on it.

This also came with these admonitions: "Just because I can make your bail doesn't mean I will, and NEVER presume you have the resources of my office at your disposal. IOW, don't be a (can't use his words here due to Miss Manners)..." I've kept those in mind to this day. Don't do stupid, illegal stuff. Got it, Dad!

That said, I've always politely declined searches after an incident in Oklahoma years ago. After I consented, an OHP trooper planted a tiny bit of cannabis in my passenger's travel bag (that was in the bed of my pickup truck) and used that to justify what amounted to a roadside disassembly of my vehicle. He found nothing. Oh, and it was pretext stop for "speeding" when I was in the middle of a long line of vehicles. No citations were issued and nobody went to jail (that was a clue that the stop was bogus. Neither I nor my passenger had any contraband when we left on our trip but somehow an officer "found" some). To this day, some 30 years later, I will not drive that stretch of I-35 (from the Cimarron Turnpike exit, north to the Kansas line).

Years later the same thing happened to an eventual co-worker, who was traveling with <$10,000 (he was a buyer for a used car dealer). The OHP planted weed in his vehicle, seized it and filed for forfeiture of the cash. It took over a year and almost the same amount of money for a good attorney to prevail, but he got his money back. The attorney said it happened on a weekly basis and the way forfeiture laws are written, almost impossible for a driver to recover his property.

These kinds of personal experiences are why I don't automatically "respect the badge." My apologies to the active and retired L.E.O. members here, but some of your brothers and sisters have gone out of their way to earn this lack of automatic respect for your entire class. I'm unfailingly polite and civil in these situations but I don't back down.

[timjet]

I think if everyone refused a request for a search the police would soon give up making such a request.

I do believe a search request is a fishing expedition on the police's part.

[Jmac00]

Back in the good old days, LEO was respected.

Nowadays there are far too many instances of police abuses. There are several YouTube videos of Police planting "evidence". Not to mention instances of very angry police officers screaming at people for no apparent reason. there are also videos of LEO having astounding patients with idiots they pulled over.

as we all know any encounter with police starts with being polite. Regardless of the officer's attitude. One thing that tends to make LEO mad is a citizen knowing their rights and refusing to be intimidated.

LEO have no right to ask to search your vehicle unless they have probable cause. ie: you leave contraband or a firearm in plain sight. If there is no probable cause and you KNOW you have done nothing wrong, then refuse. You can say something along the lines of "sorry sir, we are on a schedule and we would really like to move along, thank you"

If LEO try to intimidate you by demanding you get out of the vehicle, comply fully with the commands, BUT! take your keys with you, lock your door and close it. If you leave the door open, it's kinda like an invitation for a search.

If you are legally carrying a firearm, SOME STATES require you inform LEO, at first contact, that you are in fact carrying a firearm, New Yorkistan IS NOT an "inform" state. I have told an NYS trooper that I was legally carrying a firearm and his reply was "thats nice if it's on you please keep it holstered if in the glove compartment, leave it there" they never really seem to care whether I have a firearm. maybe cause Im an old guy?

as already stated, your attitude is pretty much everything. if you have nothing to hide and you don't care, let them look around. if you want to dick around, get your attitude on.

My personal attitude is going to be a big fat NO, Being in new Yorkistan, with all the new rules and regulations that the state is imparting on us, I no longer trust law enforcement. I also do not speed (much to the annoyance of everyone on the road) I make sure every light on the vehicles works. I don't give them a reason to pull me over. The last two times I have needed a cop, they were fairly usless. but thats just my experiance

[BillB100]

YES IF I have done nothing wrong, No if I know I'm toast anyway. But then I'm a retired LEO.

[PJStough]

Originally Posted by timjet

I think if everyone refused a request for a search the police would soon give up making such a request.

I do believe a search request is a fishing expedition on the police's part.

I agree 100%. If the police had probable cause, they would state that fact, and go ahead and search. The fact that they asked, says they dont have probable cause, and if they dont have probable cause they have no business wanting to search.


On another note. Respecting the badge is one thing, kowtowing to it is quite another.

[spsm]

Back in the 50's I came back across the border with 9 or 10 bottles of Canada's finest whiskey. (Crown Royal).......... Of course I didn't declare them. After the usual, where and how long, papers on the animal, etc. Pull over there and lets have a looksee. A nice RCMP female (going back into the states, probably was an American) came aboard, (travel trailer) and she went right to my hiding place. Opened up the furnace door and was chased out by a hand full of wasps. She told me to get on down the road. Back then, that would have been alot of money to lose.

[aknavy]

I would politely decline. If they went ahead and searched, have fun - but I would still decline. Just as I would decline to answer any questions without a lawyer present. I have nothing to hide, but...it is our right, and there are both tricky and crooked cops out there. I sacrificed some of my constitutional rights for 20 years serving in the military, and I will take full advantage of all of them now that I'm retired.

[rjsupersonic]

Retired LEO I would have no problem ....search away.

[Jmac00]

Originally Posted by rjsupersonic

Retired LEO I would have no problem ....search away.

I think you retired LEO have a distinct advantage, all you have to say is "hey, Im retired LE, how long you been on the job" ~~~~ at that point "professional courtesy" would kick in. and down the road you go

[ElvistheKing]

Originally Posted by weredoingit

There was a time when anyone in a uniform meant they were the good guys, unfortunately those days are gone.

When!?! If anything Police Corruption is probably lower than in the past!!!
I certainly can't think of any "golden age" of police corruption.

[twogypsies]

Originally Posted by timjet

I'm thinking mostly of being searched while driving a car.
The question is do you want to insist on your constitutional right to refuse a search and see if the officer takes that as a challenge and harass you or allow it and likely be on your way quickly.

We go through border patrol areas all the time. Take your sunglasses off. Don't say a word until asked. Answer in short words... don't create conversation - especially not a joke. Answer honestly. You won't be searched.

One time going into Canada we were asked about bear spray or any other spray. We stated that we had a spray for bicycle riders to deter dogs chasing us. He asked if he could see it. He was amazed that we even owned up to having the 3" container. He studied the label carefully and it didn't pass the stated requirements and he apologized profusely for having to confiscate it - a $2 container!

[ernest917]

Am I wrong or isn't a motorhome considered you domicile and not just a vehicle therefore aren't the "rules" different????

[Searching_Ut]

I’m of the mind that it’s much less of an issue now than it was 20 years ago. DUI, hunter, or fisherman checkpoints etc. were once much more common, and quite often they would ask to search your vehicle. In both California, and Utah after having said no to the search, I was detained until they did get a warrant, which takes a long time. Nothing came of the searches and I was allowed to go my way several hours later. I didn’t follow up on the California incident, but did work with a Lawyer, and my congressman on the Utah incident. Turns out that form of stop was already being contested in the courts, and Utah eventually lost and hand to change hoe they did them.

I’ve never been pulled over for cause, nor ticketed in the US, and haven’t hit any of the road block check points in the last 20 years. Have hit checkpoints where required to pull in and get the boat checked for Muscles, but they only checked specifically for them.

[weredoingit]

Originally Posted by ElvistheKing

When!?! If anything Police Corruption is probably lower than in the past!!!
I certainly can't think of any "golden age" of police corruption.

Do you have room for me and my family to live in your bubble?