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Old 08-25-2011, 10:50 AM   #1
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Power Source: Inverter? Battery? Shore? Genset?

This is something that has come up a few times.

What supplies power to what? Inverter Rig? Converter Rig? Hamster Rig?

When plugged into the shore power:
- Air conditioner power?
- GFCI outlets?
- 12 volt devices?
- Home Theatre?
- Other?

When running off the genset?
- Air conditioner power?
- GFCI outlets?
- 12 volt devices?
- Home Theatre?
- Other?
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:34 AM   #2
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I can only speak for my coach, 2002 Monaco Windsor PBT Floor-plan.

When the shore power cable is connected to 50 amp shore power, it will supply both 120 volt power to ALL of my 120 volt outlets including the rooftop air conditioner's. It will also supply power to the Inverter/Converter to power all of the 12 volt DC devices in the coach and subsequently charge the house battery bank first by using the converter followed by charging the chassis battery second.

When the generator is running, it will supply 120 volt power to everything stated above as if it was taking the EXACT place of the 120 volt AC coming from the shore power cable.

When the engine is running, it will supply power to the battery charging system such that the chassis battery is charged first followed by the bank of house batteries.

The bank of house batteries will supply both 12 volt DC and 120 volt AC to the coach by utilizing the inverter, however, there are two outlets in my coach that are not powered by the inverter. One is where the Norcold refrigerator is plugged into and the other is where my Onan EC-30W Remote Control is plugged into. Both units require being powered by true 120 volt AC power supplied by the shore power cable or the generator. If either are not available, the frig will automatically switch over to LPG power and the Onan EC-30W will recognize when shore power has been severed so when the inside of the coach reaches a set temperature, it will automatically start my generator using the EC-30W Remote Control. Also, when using the inverter, none of the rooftop A/C's are powered. Even though the microwave will function off the inverter power, it will only run at half or less than half power, I do NOT recommend using the microwave with the inverter. There have been too many microwave failures from people running the microwave while using the inverter.

Then there is an Intellitec EMS system involved when I am hooked to 30 amp shore power that will monitor my ampere usage to make sure I do not exceed the 30 amp maximum. Once I start to get close to the 30 amps, the Intellitec EMS system will start to shed various devices in my coach to protect the 30 amp pedestal.

Is this what you are referring to and wanted to know? Your post was very confusing.

Dr4Film ----- Richard.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:00 PM   #3
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Plugged into shore power with generator off.. Shore provides all power, both 120 volt and via the converter 12 volt, inside the rig.

With generator ON: Generator provides as above.

With no shore power or Generator power.. IF you have a factory installed inverter then one of two conditions exists:

1: Small inverter will power the front entainerment system (TV/Radio/VCR or DVR/DVD/Sat receiver. and may pwer the rear tv as well)

2: With a larger inverter there will be a 2nd breaker box, or a 2nd section in the main box which lists the inverter powered systems. In MY Coach (yours may (likely will) be different, these are Microwve, The aforementioned televisons (All of them) and the GFCI outlets (Kitchen/bath/patio and dining room)
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:08 PM   #4
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Bigd42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr4Film View Post
I can only speak for my coach, 2002 Monaco Windsor PBT Floor-plan.

When the shore power cable is connected to 50 amp shore power, it will supply both 120 volt power to ALL of my 120 volt outlets including the rooftop air conditioner's. It will also supply power to the Inverter/Converter to power all of the 12 volt DC devices in the coach and subsequently charge the house battery bank first by using the converter followed by charging the chassis battery second.

When the generator is running, it will supply 120 volt power to everything stated above as if it was taking the EXACT place of the 120 volt AC coming from the shore power cable.

When the engine is running, it will supply power to the battery charging system such that the chassis battery is charged first followed by the bank of house batteries.

The bank of house batteries will supply both 12 volt DC and 120 volt AC to the coach by utilizing the inverter, however, there are two outlets in my coach that are not powered by the inverter. One is where the Norcold refrigerator is plugged into and the other is where my Onan EC-30W Remote Control is plugged into. Both units require being powered by true 120 volt AC power supplied by the shore power cable or the generator. If either are not available, the frig will automatically switch over to LPG power and the Onan EC-30W will recognize when shore power has been severed so when the inside of the coach reaches a set temperature, it will automatically start my generator using the EC-30W Remote Control. Also, when using the inverter, none of the rooftop A/C's are powered. Even though the microwave will function off the inverter power, it will only run at half or less than half power, I do NOT recommend using the microwave with the inverter. There have been too many microwave failures from people running the microwave while using the inverter.

Then there is an Intellitec EMS system involved when I am hooked to 30 amp shore power that will monitor my ampere usage to make sure I do not exceed the 30 amp maximum. Once I start to get close to the 30 amps, the Intellitec EMS system will start to shed various devices in my coach to protect the 30 amp pedestal.

Is this what you are referring to and wanted to know? Your post was very confusing.

Dr4Film ----- Richard.
How do I identify if mine is EMS?
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Old 08-25-2011, 03:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigd42 View Post

How do I identify if mine is EMS?
Some coaches, the Intellitec EMS system may have been an option, I am not sure.

My Intellitec EMS panel is located next to my house circuit breaker panel and both are located in an overhead cabinet in the bedroom. There is a display that will show you whether you are connected to the generator, 50 amp shore power, or something less than 50 amp shore power. It will also tell you what devices have been shed off because of limited shore power supply and ampere usage.

I can post a couple of photos if that would help.

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Old 08-25-2011, 07:19 PM   #6
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One of the confusing points is that with a factory installed inverter, the power for certain circuits runs through the inverter even when plugged to shore power or using the generator. The source is still shore or generator, but it passes through the inverter circuitry (it has an internal transfer switch). The circuit breakers on the inverter can still trip and shut power off on those circuits.
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:44 AM   #7
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Another confusing issue is with GFI's. My coach has GFI circuit breakers to protect various circuits throughout the coach. Other manufacturers decided to install GFI outlets in various places which they also wired in other stuff in series with the GFI's.

You just never know what you got until you look thoroughly at your specific coach and wiring. You can't even rely on their diagrams either.

Dr4Film ----- Richard.
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr4Film View Post
You just never know what you got until you look thoroughly at your specific coach and wiring. You can't even rely on their diagrams either.

Dr4Film ----- Richard.
Thanks for a great response to this question. I am new to this and been fighting several electrical problems and wish this question and answer had appeared a week ago. Would have save me a lot of headache. Had to buy a circuit tracer to sort the last one out as the Monoco wiring digrams left a bit to be desired.

I love this site and the members here, it can not be beat..
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Old 08-27-2011, 09:12 PM   #9
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Yes a photo would be very helpful. I have a 2002 class A Rexall Airbuss and can not tell if the converter is EMS or not. It is located in the basement dept. where the 50 amp cord is.
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Old 08-28-2011, 06:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigd42 View Post

Yes a photo would be very helpful. I have a 2002 class A Rexall Airbuss and can not tell if the converter is EMS or not. It is located in the basement dept. where the 50 amp cord is.
I will get you a photo or two of the Intellitec EMS system which is located in my bedroom cabinet.

However, I do believe you are somewhat confused as to the difference between an Intellitec EMS system and the Converter/Inverter system. The latter is not commonly referred to as EMS system but I guess some people could refer to it as an Energy Management System.

The Intellitec EMS system is only used on 50 amp coaches and is used when the shore power is less than 50 amps. See previous post for more specifics.

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Old 08-29-2011, 12:03 PM   #11
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I have the Magnum inverter wich permits me to dial in the power current limit of 50 amps or 30 amps. I think it even allows me to dial in 20 amps. I can select the max amps, battery type, watt scan, etc.

What concerned me is what power source is supplying power to what user at any given time.

There are two modes of operation associated with this inverter/charger:

Inverter Mode
When the inverter is properly connected to batteries and turned on, the Direct Current (DC) from the batteries is transformed into a pure sine wave Alternating Current (AC).

This AC is similar to the voltage provided by your utility and is used to power the electrical appliances (i.e. AC loads) connected to the inverter’s output.

Standby Mode
When an external source of AC power (i.e. utility power or generator) is connected and qualified on the inverter’s AC input, it operates in the Standby Mode. In the Standby Mode, the unit operates as a Battery Charger to convert the incoming AC power into DC power to recharge the batteries; and at the same time, automatically closes an internal

AC Transfer Relay to pass the incoming AC power directly to inverter’s output to continue
powering the connected electrical appliances.

Power users:

Blender 400W
Coffee Maker 1200W
Computer 300W

Color TV 150W
Drill 500W

Hair Dryer 1000W
Hot Plate 1800W
Iron 1000W
Light (Flo) 10W
Light (Inc) 100W

Microwave 1000W
Refrigerator 500W
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Old 08-29-2011, 05:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
The Intellitec EMS system is only used on 50 amp coaches and is used when the shore power is less than 50 amps.

Actually many 30A coaches also have an EMS - usually from Intellitec. There are several variants, including some that are built into the a/c/heat thermostat. They are useful any time it is necessary to limit power consumption to 30A.
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman_777 View Post

What concerned me is what power source is supplying power to what user at any given time.

Power users:

Blender 400W
Coffee Maker 1200W
Computer 300W

Color TV 150W
Drill 500W

Hair Dryer 1000W
Hot Plate 1800W
Iron 1000W
Light (Flo) 10W
Light (Inc) 100W

Microwave 1000W
Refrigerator 500W

Shore Power Supply - All USERS listed above will operate from 120 Volt AC 50 amp shore power.

Generator Power Supply - Same as above.

Inverter Power Supply - Rooftop A/C's will not operate, Frig will not operate on inverter, if not plugged into the Inverter driven outlet. It will switch over to LPG to conserve on available Battery Bank amps. And any outlet that is NOT connected to the inverter. Anything else is owner dependent, but you need to use common sense when trying to use some of the high wattage items. Too much working at one time will deplete your battery bank quickly.

Do not confuse the Pass-Thru feature of the Inverter/Converter in stand-by mode for the inverter supplying power, it is only supplying power when neither the generator nor the shore power cable are being used.

Regarding the Intellitec EMS system, I was only referring to the EMS system I have in my coach, knowing that there are many other EMS systems used in other coaches.

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Old 09-01-2011, 07:12 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by bigd42 View Post

Yes a photo would be very helpful. I have a 2002 class A Rexall Airbuss and can not tell if the converter is EMS or not. It is located in the basement dept. where the 50 amp cord is.
Here are a few photos of my Intellitec EMS 120 volt AC panel that I had promised to post.

Photo #1 & #2 are of the Intellitec EMS 120 Volt AC Panel. There is a control board in back of the panel on the right with relays that manage the "power shedding" process.

Photo #3 shows the small Intellitec EMS display which sits over my 12 volt DC house fuse panel.

I have also included the Intellitec Owners Manual.

Dr4Film ----- Richard.
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