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Old 04-13-2011, 08:01 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by bldrbob View Post
Sounds like you installed a separate fuse block with a bunch of wires that were connected directly to the battery.The wire you used is not large enough to carry the combined load of all those wires and is heating up.A 10 amp fuse is not large enough to carry the combined load and burns.The feed line has to be big enough to carry the combined load.
Don't understand what you are referring too, the wires coming to the new fuse block are the same wires that were already connected to the positive battery post, and then from the fuse block to the battery post is 4 gage, so it more than large enough to carry the combined load, so unless I misunderstand your comment. Again everything is as there were prior to my rerouting them I only made them safer and cleaner.
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:15 AM   #16
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Kartvines,
After reading these posts, I do not believe your initial question has been answered. First of all, using the ‘add a circuit’ connection will power some if not all the circuits in the fuse panel. I would NOT do this. There are just too many unknowns to trust a connection like this. I would suggest you locate the problem. Shortcuts with electrical often cause serious problems. Like fire!

You do seem to have a little trouble with the terminology of ‘open’ or ‘short’ in circuits. These two terms do describe very specific problems.

The term ‘short’ describes a power wire with a short path to ground. (shorted wires blow fuses or trip circuit breakers)

The term ‘open’ describes a circuit with a broken (open) wire or component. (open circuit problems do not blow fuses or trip circuit breakers)

The first step in troubleshooting an electrical problem is correctly defining the problem.

It does sound like you have a ‘short’ in the power wire to the fuse panel. You stated you found a blown 5 amp fuse, replaced it with a 10 amp fuse and the wire started getting hot. This is a sure sign of a short in the power wire.

There is a procedure to test for a short to ground in power wiring. The procedure is time consuming but not costly.

I will be glad to detail the procedure if you would want. But this post is getting long and I don’t want to get in to it if you do not need this procedure.

I very much appreciate your wanting to understand the problem, the cause, and do the best repair possible. I think I can help and am more than willing to try.
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:35 AM   #17
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[QUOTE=kartvines;830458]So what you are suggesting to pull the ignition switch and try and locate the wire there? I wouldn't pull the switch to do that unless you can't get down there to see what you're doing well enough. I'd just use a test light - the kind with the pointed probe?

So the problem wire is routed to the switch before it is routed to the fuse panel? YES.
I'm not sure this is the "problem" wire. Just troubleshooting.

I had thought that the switch was wired to sections of the fuse panel directly and then sections off to those switched fuses.
No. The power is split and fused at the chassis fuse panel.

Also, I'm not sure if a relay is used in this circuit? Could be, but I don't remember one being there. Been a long time though. If there were one, it would be wired in someplace between the ign. switch and fuse panel.

So, for troubleshooting purposes, I would check for power at the ign. switch with the switch "on". (the switch is going to be located on the top side of the steering column, down near the brake pedal.) Confirm the wire has no power in the "off" position, then move to the chassis fuse panel - and do the same there. That should lead you in the right direction.
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RinkersRanch View Post
Kartvines,
After reading these posts, I do not believe your initial question has been answered. First of all, using the ‘add a circuit’ connection will power some if not all the circuits in the fuse panel. I would NOT do this. There are just too many unknowns to trust a connection like this. I would suggest you locate the problem. Shortcuts with electrical often cause serious problems. Like fire!

Unfortunately being "anal" I always prefer to do the job correctly, and I find my self seeking more knowledge than I need, I over read a subject to gain as much information as possible, but as I have said in other post my knowledges is better learn by trial and error, because you see the cause and consequent, which is the best teacher. Because this is my nature I also over-think everything, so instead of a basic problem it develops into a major one, because then not only do I want to repair it correctly but then I also need to know and understand what caused the problem. I never have a problem asking a stupid question, and many good people on this forum sometime don't put as much thought on their answer and often time it is merely anecdotal.
Because of that then I must weed out as much of this anecdotal information as possible, and as a novice [I consider myself a novice at everything I have yet to master] it become difficult at best.

You do seem to have a little trouble with the terminology of ‘open’ or ‘short’ in circuits. These two terms do describe very specific problems.

I have always called it a short, but I have been corrected many times and steered in another direction, a short to me is the same as you explained a wire that has grounded itself in some form or manner

The term ‘short’ describes a power wire with a short path to ground. (shorted wires blow fuses or trip circuit breakers)

The term ‘open’ describes a circuit with a broken (open) wire or component. (open circuit problems do not blow fuses or trip circuit breakers)

The first step in troubleshooting an electrical problem is correctly defining the problem.

It does sound like you have a ‘short’ in the power wire to the fuse panel. You stated you found a blown 5 amp fuse, replaced it with a 10 amp fuse and the wire started getting hot. This is a sure sign of a short in the power wire.

There is a procedure to test for a short to ground in power wiring. The procedure is time consuming but not costly.

I will be glad to detail the procedure if you would want. But this post is getting long and I don’t want to get in to it if you do not need this procedure.

I have already read a great deal on the subject. But everything I have read so far, will be attempted over the upcoming week end, being my very last chance in repairing the problem myself. Due to a upcoming maiden voyage, I have ran out of time to learn while doing, and if I fail it will have to go into the shop for someone else to repair and I will have lost that lesson to learn.

I very much appreciate your wanting to understand the problem, the cause, and do the best repair possible. I think I can help and am more than willing to try.
I would indeed welcome your input especially if you have the first hand knowledge to steer me in the right direction and because of that allow me to be successful over the week end, so I can send you a private message with my email address if you would prefer to do it via email or if it is easier for you, you can send me a provide message via this forum and offer your input and expertise within that format.
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:12 AM   #19
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[QUOTE=ahicks;830583]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kartvines View Post
So what you are suggesting to pull the ignition switch and try and locate the wire there? I wouldn't pull the switch to do that unless you can't get down there to see what you're doing well enough. I'd just use a test light - the kind with the pointed probe?
I have had the switch out before only because it is all but impossible to get to any other way, and then I discovered that the tab that hold the electrical to the switch was broken, so I did not want to put too much strain on it to create a bigger problem, so I taped it together so it held, and everything was working until last week end, I guess it is possible that it again has separated, and again loose, but I would think it would create more than this single problem.

So the problem wire is routed to the switch before it is routed to the fuse panel? YES. I'm not sure this is the "problem" wire. Just troubleshooting.

I had thought that the switch was wired to sections of the fuse panel directly and then sections off to those switched fuses. No. The power is split and fused at the chassis fuse panel.

Also, I'm not sure if a relay is used in this circuit? Could be, but I don't remember one being there. Been a long time though. If there were one, it would be wired in someplace between the ign. switch and fuse panel.

So, for troubleshooting purposes, I would check for power at the ign. switch with the switch "on". (the switch is going to be located on the top side of the steering column, down near the brake pedal.) Confirm the wire has no power in the "off" position, then move to the chassis fuse panel - and do the same there. That should lead you in the right direction.

I know there is at least some power to the switch because so far only few items fail, and everything else seems to work correctly , including the engine. What switch on the top of the
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:17 AM   #20
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[QUOTE=ahicks;830583]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kartvines View Post
So what you are suggesting to pull the ignition switch and try and locate the wire there? I wouldn't pull the switch to do that unless you can't get down there to see what you're doing well enough. I'd just use a test light - the kind with the pointed probe?

I have had the switch out before only because it is all but impossible to get to any other way, and then I discovered that the tab that hold the electrical to the switch was broken, so I did not want to put too much strain on it to create a bigger problem, so I taped it together so it held, and everything was working until last week end, I guess it is possible that it again has separated, and again loose, but I would think it would create more than this single problem.


So the problem wire is routed to the switch before it is routed to the fuse panel? YES. I'm not sure this is the "problem" wire. Just troubleshooting.

I had thought that the switch was wired to sections of the fuse panel directly and then sections off to those switched fuses. No. The power is split and fused at the chassis fuse panel.


Also, I'm not sure if a relay is used in this circuit? Could be, but I don't remember one being there. Been a long time though. If there were one, it would be wired in someplace between the ign. switch and fuse panel.

So, for troubleshooting purposes, I would check for power at the ign. switch with the switch "on". (the switch is going to be located on the top side of the steering column, down near the brake pedal.) Confirm the wire has no power in the "off" position, then move to the chassis fuse panel - and do the same there. That should lead you in the right direction.
I know I have some power at the ignition switch because everything else seems to work correctly including the engine, what switch on the top of the steering column, are you referring to? My ignition switch locate to the left on the dash. I seems to be confused with you directions.
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:26 PM   #21
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OK, so you have an earlier chassis than I was thinking of. I was thinking you had the newer style switch that's used with a locking steering wheel. Where is the chassis fuse panel mounted? There are radio, wiper and heater fuses there, correct? Do they have power when the key is on?
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Old 04-13-2011, 05:36 PM   #22
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OK, so you have an earlier chassis than I was thinking of. I was thinking you had the newer style switch that's used with a locking steering wheel. Where is the chassis fuse panel mounted?
Under the dash on the drivers side

There are radio, wiper and heater fuses there, correct?
Correct

Do they have power when the key is on?
The wiper did not but I did not check the other that will have to wait until th week end
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:28 PM   #23
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If one of the tabs on the switch was partially broken and you taped it is it possible the tab broke off leaving the wire disconnected and dead?Tape is not a good conductor.
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:43 PM   #24
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check thhe ignition switch. some have more than one power wire from it that travel to the fuse box.
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Old 04-14-2011, 07:12 AM   #25
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If one of the tabs on the switch was partially broken and you taped it is it possible the tab broke off leaving the wire disconnected and dead?Tape is not a good conductor.
It is strange how you only think of thing like this after great reflection, I would hate to drop the switch again, but the thought has value and I will end up doing it just to insure it was not creating the problem, and to re-insure that all is still intact. I was not able to think of anything else that would help me keep the sections together, so I used the electrician tape, any the idea, I first wanted to use a zip tie but there were no two solid point I could use to bond the two ends, so on that I am also open to suggestions.
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Old 04-14-2011, 07:14 AM   #26
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check thhe ignition switch. some have more than one power wire from it that travel to the fuse box.
I will differently follow your suggestion, thanks
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Old 04-14-2011, 07:38 AM   #27
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Do you have a digital multimeter? If not get one. Then take the wire off the battery post that feeds that fuse box and remove all the fuses , then check continuity on each circut to ground . That should help identify which circut is shorted. Then you can disconnect that circut while tracing it out and still use the rest.
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Old 04-14-2011, 02:56 PM   #28
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Do you have a digital multimeter? If not get one. Then take the wire off the battery post that feeds that fuse box and remove all the fuses , then check continuity on each circut to ground . That should help identify which circut is shorted. Then you can disconnect that circut while tracing it out and still use the rest.
Yes I do have a multimeter, but I already know the offending wire, so I guess I am already one step ahead, but I will keep you feedback so I have the information to refer to, thanks
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