Privatize national park campgrounds, food trucks, senior discount blackout dates

[grindstone01]

Originally Posted by 2Yung2 Quit

Private contractors typically do the work cheaper and more efficiently than the government.

Not true, there was a post about I-80 in Indiana and how a tax paid road went private and the tolls went up and maint went down. It's a mess now and will need tax payer help.

https://ourfuture.org/20150403/india...ighway-to-hell

[2Yung2 Quit]

Originally Posted by grindstone01

Not true, there was a post about I-80 in Indiana and how a tax paid road went private and the tolls went up and maint went down. It's a mess now and will need tax payer help.

https://ourfuture.org/20150403/india...ighway-to-hell

Even a blind squirrel gets a nut now and again.
There are more examples of government waste.

[grindstone01]

Originally Posted by 2Yung2 Quit

Even a blind squirrel gets a nut now and again.
There are more examples of government waste.

Do you know of any case where privatization actually became less expensive for the using public?? As others have called out, privatization adds another layer called profit that Gov doesn't have. We don't need history to repeat itself again under the pretense of saving $$. Gov may waste $$, but at least they don't have $22M/year salaries for one executive (GM).

[winniman]

Here in Ontario, some genius decided that the govt could save money by farming out the snow plowing and sanding of our major highways. They set up the tender so the timeframe was for ten years on the contract. This eliminated all the small players who owned the trucks that used to bid on individual contracts. The tender went to a company from Australia. {do they even get snow there?} After half a winter, the roads conditions were so bad, people were dying on the poorly maintained roads. The company went to court and fought the government saying, "we are maintaining the road to the standard set out in the contract. If you want more, you have to pay more". Well needless to say, to pay them to get the roads back up to the previous standards was going to be more than what it used to cost doing it the old way. Our dumbass govt had to payout a bunch of money to cancel the contract, and fire these idiots from Australia. Bottom line, no taxpayer money was saved. A whole bunch of people got in accidents, and many died. The company walked away with a bunch of taxpayer money. I have many other examples of our govt padding the pockets of their rich buddies at the expense of the taxpayer. All in the name of privatizing services to "save money". What a farce. Some things should just be provided by the govt. Not everything has to be for profit.

[hohenwald48]

Deleted

[hohenwald48]

[QUOTE=hohenwald48;4995955]

Originally Posted by richard5933

Except that much of that debt is due to the fact that the corporations, which used to pay their fair share of taxes, are now getting a free ride.

So you don't think corporations will simply raise prices to cover any increase in corporate tax rates?

[twogypsies]

Originally Posted by Jlo11111

The overwhelming majority of state and national parks generate profit for the state/fed. Unfortunately, most of the funds generated go elsewhere and not back to the park system. Then, when the state/fed runs a deficit (as they always eventually do), they threaten us with closing the parks, because they know that is one of the very few programs we care about. They always threaten what people want to bully us into paying more taxes.

Nope.... there is NO profit made in the parks. The entrance fees to the national parks stay in the park but it's certainly not profit. It covers the bare minimum. The rest of the upkeep in the parks 'should' come from the General Fund but the parks never get what they need to do necessary repairs. The backlog is extensive! You would not believe how much money is needed to give the public their 'needed' experience. Complaints come in by the thousands of things not in good repair. As volunteers we saw a lot of eye-opening experiences.

[richard5933]

[QUOTE=hohenwald48;4995963]

Originally Posted by hohenwald48

So you don't think corporations will simply raise prices to cover any increase in corporate tax rates?

Do you think that you have seen a reduction in prices because corporations are able to skate on paying taxes? Amazon paid nothing (or next to nothing) in income taxes - do you think that their prices are saving you money?

Perhaps if they paid their executives less they could afford to pay their taxes. For example, CEO compensation since 1978 has grown 940% while worker pay has only increased 12%. My guess is that much of what used to be paid in taxes is now going to CEO and other executive salaries.

[hohenwald48]

Actually yes. Amazon has some of the lowest prices in the country. What a private company pays it's employees is an issue for stock holders and not government bureaucrats.

I suspect we may be straying into inappropriate posts so I will not continue beyond this particular response.

[MotorPro]

Name me one thing that was public,went private and became cheaper and more efficient . Schools systems have tried it with varying degrees of disaster. Same with snow plowing,space exploration and military.

[Busskipper]

Did I miss something here? -

The issue is the Government is not, has not, will not, spend money on the National Park Infrastructure that is needed. -

Correct or not? -

So the solution that is being proposed is that Private Business be Licensed/Permitted/Allowed to do it in the governments place. They will invest Their Money to try to make a profit on the Government Land, doing things the Government will not do, taking a risk that the government has not done. So that if it is feasible/profitable it will be done and if not it likely will not. It is my guess that the reason the Government does not do it is that it will Cost Money that is only raised with Taxes and Bonds (Borrowed) and not likely ever be approved or done.

So let's not spend the next week/plus arguing over who does it - because the National Park Service has a Long List of Needs and a SORT LIST of Dollars to do it with, and the only way anything new will happen is if we find a New Way to Do It - Pay for It. -

Whatever happens, it will likely be very restrictive in costs and services provided so it will need to be something that is a little different or it will not succeed. Is the solution to bring in Disney World? Do we want the National Park Experience to be an Amusement Park? .... Really don't think that will ever fly, or at least that is not the expected result, so let's try to Focus on the problem and see if we can find a solution that might work. -

This is not the first time this, or something similar, has been proposed, the sides are pretty well defined (Sierra Club - Do Nothing - and the Disney types - make it too Commercial) and the issue is finding an Administration that thinks the National Parks need to be Available to More people Not Less People.

Think it was 30 years ago I proposed to Steny Hoyer D - Maryland #2 in the House, that we allow a similar proposal for more RV spaces on Public land outside the parks - We proposed that the only land used would be National Forest Land that was outside the National Parks, as the Sierra Club was just totally opposed to ANY thing in the parks. this was studied but never came out of committee - think I was busy, running my business and did not make this a/my full time job - as it requires an Extreme amount of Time to even get these things into Committee, much less out of - with any positive results.

Long story/short - this is not new - and I think it has little chance moving forward without a Ground Swell of UNITED support, so if we as RV'ers just argue about who can do what we will NEVER get anything to CHANGE, and Trust me if you want your Kids/Grandkids to see and enjoy these Unbelievable Treasures the way we did they need to have an expanded capacity, or they will just sit in line as they drive through with 10's of Thousands of others.

So as I think I've said before - Don't Piss and Moan - propose a Solution - take some time ....Think about it ... and try to make it possible for the Future Generations to see/enjoy these Treasures as we have.

JMHO,

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by Busskipper

Did I miss something here? -

The issue is the Government is not, has not, will not, spend money on the National Park Infrastructure that is needed. -
...

JMHO,

Partly correct. In the past the Federal and State governments have spent a considerable amount of money building out the park system. They've been doing if for over a century. You are correct though in stating that the people holding the purse strings at the moment do not seem to be willing to spend money to keep things moving properly.

I agree that we need to do something. However, I don't agree that adding a layer of profit to the mix is the solution. The only people that will win in that scenario are the business owners and the few that will be left able to afford what they sell and who enjoy seeing billboards in parks.

If everyone that owns an RV was to call their representatives today, and again tomorrow, and maybe even again every week or the foreseeable future, things will change.

We already have a system in place to run the parks. It's bought and paid for. All we need to do is give the correct people a kick in the seat of the pants to let them know we want them to continue to fund the system we have.

Not sure about others, but my habit is not to just piss and moan about these things. I'm often on the phone to my representatives pushing them to take action, but a lot of the time it appears that I'm one of the few doing so. Now we need to get others on board with this.

[Indy Glenn]

Originally Posted by grindstone01

Not true, there was a post about I-80 in Indiana and how a tax paid road went private and the tolls went up and maint went down. It's a mess now and will need tax payer help.

https://ourfuture.org/20150403/india...ighway-to-hell

Very true......I've seen where the Indianapolis International Airport was also privatized back in the day when privatization was in vogue - it didn't work!! The contractor charged exorbitant rents & fees, did minimum upkeep to property, less the airfield, which passes the FAA yearly inspection without any gigs year after year. It was a joke......finally the airport board saw the error of their ways and it is back under government control and doing well.

I believe the City of Indianapolis tried privatization also - not sure where that is currently. Same with the sate - I believe their privatization period may be over.

Privatization does not work - plain and simple. Remember I-80 - which I believe is still private and costing the state money......

[TonyMac]

Originally Posted by richard5933

Except that much of that debt is due to the fact that the corporations, which used to pay their fair share of taxes, are now getting a free ride.

Ok, I'll bite. What corporation is not paying taxes?

Economics 101 says that adding a layer of profit to anything makes it more expensive, not less. Add a layer of corporate profit to park management and shareholders make money. Park maintenance doesn't improve, and fees end up going higher.

Not true at all. Profit has nothing to do with efficiency and effectiveness. Better management of resources makes profitable what others did at a loss. There is no measurement of efficiency or effectiveness in government like a Board of Directors or a band of angry shareholders. It is nearly impossible to fire a lousy employee from a Government job.

There are some things in this country that exist, not because they make someone a profit, but rather because we as a society decide they are important enough to have.

Ant those things are spelled out in our Constitution.

National Parks, airports, and the Interstate system are three huge examples that stand out. They exist because they benefit everyone in society, even those that don't drive, go to parks, or fly. None of these makes money (for the most part - of course there are exceptions.)

Airports make TONS of money; have you ever landed at one and not taken on fuel, or tried to taxi out without paying a landing fee? You can't just start the motor and drive away at about any major airport. Highways nmake so much money off their fuel taxes that most state governments steal it for their General Fund. We also need prisons, and those are being privatized at an increasing rate.

I drive a $100,000 TOY -- a 40 foot diesel powered FRIVOLITY! It is more than alot of Americans can DREAM ABOUT! And it's 13 years old. Should THEY pay for my fun? Anyone think that is fair? I think I should pay for my own fun.

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