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Old 10-11-2019, 03:57 PM   #1
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Privatize national park campgrounds, food trucks, senior discount blackout dates

So sad, hate to see food trucks, vendors, and reductions in discounts and blackout dates at our national parks. New committee was formed to push this.

https://apple.news/AEr7WP6dHQCmlLIYfiMmoJA
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Old 10-11-2019, 06:36 PM   #2
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Something has to be done. Our parks are not receiving enough funds to keep up with maintaining the parks. Having volunteered in quite a few of our parks we saw firsthand things that aren't done because of no money. Many campgrounds are privatized right now. This isn't something new.
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Old 10-11-2019, 07:54 PM   #3
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The land belongs to the people. The govt have an obligation to keep it accessible for all to use, not just the rich people. Private contractors means for profit, which means higher prices. The govts seem to have money for every other stupid thing, why not take care of the public resources. I went to the National Forest at Mount Washington. They charged us about $60 dollars US to drive up the mountain. You guessed it, private contractor. We were in Acadia NP the week before. $32 for a week pass to enter the park. You guessed it, not a private contractor.
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Old 10-11-2019, 07:59 PM   #4
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Old 10-12-2019, 09:47 AM   #5
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I'm confused. You want to pay little to use the parks, but we know the revenue is not covering their maintenance & admin costs. Hence, private firms charge more so they do cover their costs. Yes they also are making some profit, but the main driver of the price difference is maintenance costs. Federal money is printed, but only at a cost to all who pay taxes.
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:06 AM   #6
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I'm confused. You want to pay little to use the parks, but we know the revenue is not covering their maintenance & admin costs. Hence, private firms charge more so they do cover their costs. Yes they also are making some profit, but the main driver of the price difference is maintenance costs. Federal money is printed, but only at a cost to all who pay taxes.

The original Nat'l Park system was set up to be available to all the people, not just the wealthy. That's why is was not supposed to be based on entry fees which we seem to have gotten away from. Many people (us included) have passed by Nat'l parks because the entrance fee was not worth it. Gov is suppose to provide infrastructure for the masses, not for profit.
I may get in trouble for this comment "Government exist for the people, business exist for profit", the two don't mix well.
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:16 AM   #7
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I'm confused. You want to pay little to use the parks, but we know the revenue is not covering their maintenance & admin costs. Hence, private firms charge more so they do cover their costs. Yes they also are making some profit, but the main driver of the price difference is maintenance costs. Federal money is printed, but only at a cost to all who pay taxes.
And there-in lies the quandary, Should we publicly fund our parks at a level that sustains the infrastructure and allows reasonable access to all economic classes? Or do we continue to cut the National Parks budget and increase fees to a point where the only the more economically advantaged will have access?
As for privatization this push has been on since at least the 1980's as the concessionaires have pushed harder and harder for a bigger piece of the park operations.
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:32 AM   #8
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If you really think that the state parks
Are to be used by All the people, regardless of financial status.
Lets clear the citys of the vagrants and homeless, tow all the abandoned rvs to the state parks and park them for the homeless so there is fair and equitable ussage by the population.

Thats fair at the Best.

Now here is the real issue.

About 20 percent pay 80 percent of the taxes, or overhead.
Then they pay again with park fees, road gas tax, sales tax on $50,000 rvs and $2.5 million rvs. etc.etc.

I think the wealthy that pay for all the 50 percent of freeloaders should have more rights, more usage of public services.

Thats only fair
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Old 10-12-2019, 02:59 PM   #9
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Do I like the privatization of NP Campgrounds - of couse not. But Economocs 101 says that if they are going to stay open in some form, someone else needs to be in charge.

When you pay a burger flipper or even a dishwasher, no skills required, at least 15 bucks an hour, you wont get much in the way of help that actually knows which end of a shovel works to move dirt. Why should they do hard work when all they need to do is stand at a grill and turn burgers all day. Now multiply that person at that NP by several dozen, you have on heckuva payroll and mostly all paid out of your tax dollars. Recall also that the $15/hour wages aren't all of a employees cost - benefits, FICA and training are agged to that $ figure. Entry fees at NPs have gone way up. Acadia, the last we were at a couple weeks ago is now $30, Grand Canyon and Zion, $35. Getting up there but still way less then your $$ MH or trailer +toad/tow vehicle plus their care and fuel appetite.



Again, no I don't much care for any more fees and increases, but after too many years of neglect, that's real life. Buy a pass and you will also save bucks. I bought a US Golden Age Pass 10 years ago for $10 and it has paid for itself many times over. The replacement is more bucks but still worth it after a couple NP visits.
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Old 10-12-2019, 03:22 PM   #10
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Is it my understanding that Parks Canada is user fee supported ?
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Old 10-12-2019, 03:26 PM   #11
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The entrance fee passes come in many forms. Buy one for the year for $80 and you can get in free to any national park, national historic area, national wildlife area, etc. That is free entry for the whole vehicle! When you go to the county fair you'd pay entrance for each person! A national park is much better. There are also handicap access passes, senior passes, etc. Check it out! That's the cheaper way to go in many cases. Note that entry fee money stays in the parks but certainly doesn't begin to cover all that is needed to operate the park. The rest of the money needed would come from the General Fund in Washington but what is needed is not given.

https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/passes.htm

In addition, there are concessioner campgrounds in the parks now. Some give the 1/2 off camping to certain cardholders such as the senior pass, the access pass, and some don't honor the pass. The pass 1/2 off was always given for the basic site only even campgrounds that are park-operated. Electric was always extra.
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Old 10-12-2019, 04:07 PM   #12
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People clamor for more free stuff, better roads, rebuild infrastructure, lower medical costs, lower drug costs, lower housing costs, improve schools (public ones), lower fees for national parks, and the list just keeps getting bigger. Now we here we need free secondary education, forgive all school debt, Medicare for all, and this list keeps getting bigger. REGARDLESS of what side of the ledger you sit, what I don’t hear is the populace at large clamoring to pay more in taxes to support it. It’s OK if someone else pays for it, but not me....

A public/private arrangement for running the concessions, stores, camping facilities could be a good idea. You can visit the parks all day long, and you have a choice if you want to partake of the stores, camping, recreational options that may be available. Continuing to run things at a loss is a bad idea.
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Old 10-12-2019, 07:36 PM   #13
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A public/private arrangement for running the concessions, stores, camping facilities could be a good idea. You can visit the parks all day long, and you have a choice if you want to partake of the stores, camping, recreational options that may be available. Continuing to run things at a loss is a bad idea.
The military runs things at a loss but we judge it to be beneficial to the citizenry. I think our national parks are at least as beneficial.

Now we could turn our military over to mercenary companies and pay them; It worked OK in the late Middle Ages. But that wasn't cheap either---Point d'argent, point de Suisse.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:58 PM   #14
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As Twogypsies said, it is a maximum of $80 a year to get in free to all National Parks, National Historic Sites, etc. Isn’t that a nice dinner out, including tip? Twenty lattes at Starbucks? The price of a couple of nights at a mid-range full service campground? Is that fee going to break the bank? And if you are over 62, the price is now $80 for your entire life! Handicapped? Free pass. Active service member? Free! National parks are an incredible bargain even with the standard yearly pass which my family bought every year before we were eligible for a senior pass. And non-concessionaire NPS campgrounds are generally less than $20. Not a lot of services, but lots of people prefer it that way. Want to fix the backlog of maintenance? Elect people who believe that e should support our national treasure instead of turn them over to the highest bidder. Privatization is a terrible idea.
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