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Gadget Man · 01-01-2012, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucks2

These restrictions are often a condition of THEIR insurance policy.

You bring up a valid point, I hadn't thought about that. In my opinion they should then just say "Use At Your Own Risk." I could accept that. At least that way if I use my portable heater and burn my rig down, I have no one to blame but myself (excluding a possible faulty heater of course).

Craig

rdownward · 01-01-2012, 09:41 AM

Being a former CG owner, I included projected electric (and other utility) costs into the rates I charged. This should be a no brainer for CG owners. Not only is it nearly impossible to monitor electricity without separate meters for each space, it is just plain bad business practice to try to restrict utility use. Campground Owners are inviting us to use their facilities at whatever fee they impose for that use. Placing restrictions on how we use the facilities provided (other than keeping animals and children under control and cleaning up after them) if nothing else, is inhospitable. Personally, I won't stay at a CG that restricts utility usage unless it is an emergency. I wish all my fellow RVers a FANTASTIC 2012. Happy (and safe) Trails to you all!

chasfm11 · 01-01-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucks2

Maybe some of you aren't totally understanding my thought about portable heaters. The campground really wouldn't care if you used the heater or not. And they certainly wouldn't be involved in "checking" on you. But, in the event of a fire, where the Fire Marshall determines that the fire was caused by a portable heater, then the campground can show that you broke the rules, caused the fire either by neglect or accident and they have a better chance at not sharing in the cost of the fire. These restrictions are often a condition of THEIR insurance policy.

Is it reasonable that they put in all their advertising that they don't allow portable electric heaters? Do they have to put in every ad that you're required to pick up after your dog? Would you require them to notify you that they occasionally have power surges in their electric lines during lightning storms? High water pressure? An uneven walkway on site 11. High mineral content in the water? Because by God I paid for "full hookups" and whatever "full hookups" are in my mind is what I demand! And if they didn't pay for full disclosure of ALL things that I might do in their ads, I'll do what I want. Sounds pretty far fetched to me.

Doing research for this post I checked several restaurant ads and found none that stated their policy of No Shirts, No Shoes, No Service. Would you insist that because their ad didn't state all the rules that you'd be able to eat there with no shoes?

While your argument may have some logical merit, I wonder if there is any real evidence behind it. Yes, I know that there are RV fires but how many of them have ever been caused by portable electric heaters? IMHO, a lot of the "insurance" regulations are a ruse because the business owners don't want to take the responsibility for setting them and it is easier to blame an insurance company. Then there are insurance companies who seem to MSU (make stuff up) that has no underwriting merit to justify increasing rates. I can imagine a lot of bad things that can happen in a CG but only some of the really will and actually pose a real loss risk. Yes, I also understand that insurance companies carefully watch civil trials and the outcomes of some of those defy any logic. Many of the regulations are driven by one of a kind trial results that extrapolated across many dissimilar situations.

jlyon69 · 01-01-2012, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdownward

Being a former CG owner, I included projected electric (and other utility) costs into the rates I charged. This should be a no brainer for CG owners. Not only is it nearly impossible to monitor electricity without separate meters for each space, it is just plain bad business practice to try to restrict utility use. Campground Owners are inviting us to use their facilities at whatever fee they impose for that use. Placing restrictions on how we use the facilities provided (other than keeping animals and children under control and cleaning up after them) if nothing else, is inhospitable. Personally, I won't stay at a CG that restricts utility usage unless it is an emergency. I wish all my fellow RVers a FANTASTIC 2012. Happy (and safe) Trails to you all!

I couldn't agree more. It seems ridiculous a CG would impose a restriction rather than raising the rates a bit. I would much rather pay $5.00 extra then be told I can't use certain things...this is really a no-brainer.

I'm just wondering if these CGs doing this have reached a limit to their total load in the park. When their system was installed, most likely only had 15 and 30 amp service. Then they had to put in 50amp. Then comes heat pumps, electric hot water and all the other amp eating stuff. It's the only thing I can come up with that makes any sense to me.

genesimmons · 01-01-2012, 10:47 AM

some campgrounds charge so much now,you could stay in a nice motel/hotel cheaper than the campsites

bushbunnie · 01-01-2012, 12:29 PM

I agree with Rusty JC and I'm a campground owner

Perry White · 01-01-2012, 01:13 PM

You think they might not allow it because of the liability of fire? They should explain why they prohibit them.

Route 66 · 01-01-2012, 01:42 PM

I'm 100% convinced it's 100% about the amount of electricity used, raising the CG owners electrical bill.

Gary RVRoamer · 01-01-2012, 04:33 PM

I don't believe that liability has anything to do with it either. It's not even clear the campground would have any liability if my portable heater malfunctioned. Are they liable if my Norcold fridge causes a fire? Or my coffee maker shorts out and burns the rig up? If the portable heater is UL-rated, there should be no issue anyway.

**NLOVNIT** · 01-01-2012, 04:42 PM

Maybe, if it does have to do w/usage, instead of prohibiting or charging extra for heaters &/or A/C, they should do what some other CG's do. One I frequently go to is Lock 30. They charge a base rate for the site & electric is metered. If you've got a tent & all you need is to plug in your coffee pot for java in the AM, you pay very little for electric. If you've got a big motorcoach that's all electric w/4 big screen TV's, 3 A/C's & awning lights then you pay much more.

Since it's something that seems might become more prevalent, always ask when inquiring about site availability.

Lori-

Wayne MD · 01-02-2012, 12:03 AM

A surge of electric rates is expected over next year. How is this going to affect what we pay at cg everywhere? I'll be watching.

pa0gri · 01-02-2012, 03:49 AM

When a Campground "advertizes" with 50 apm connections, that means they have pedestals where you can plug-in your 50 amp connector. This by no means you should try to use (or are able to) the capability of that connection.
It could very well be that the line is fused with 30 amp.
It is quite expensive to lay out all those heavy cables trough the campground. (investment ....)

Here in Europe we are standardized on a 16 Amp plug but many campgrounds limit the current draw with 4 or 6 amp (resetable) fuses. Often metered.
Then they charge like $1.50 for a Kw while the cost is $.15 for the same Kw.
They want to get the investment on cables/meters/pedestals back....

If you want to waste resources why worry about mpg?????

Happy New Year.

meterguru · 01-02-2012, 05:00 AM

With out going into long explanations electric usage is a huge cost for most campgrounds and without major upgrades our new 50A RV are very taxing on their systems. In most state the utility not only charges for total power used but the maximum amount that is required at any one time (demand charge). This charge can easily exceed their usage charge if everyone's equipment were to come on at the same time. I have been in some campgrounds in the winter with snow on the ground, you can actually see where the underground service is because the snow is melted from the service heating up from being overloaded. This is not a common occurrence but it does happen especially in older campgrounds that are trying to accommodate the newer RVs. Today's RV can easily use $8 to $12 worth of power daily. Now they could pass the cost on to every one or ask that we all help to reduce the usage, so of us can be quite wasteful when it comes to power consumption. With today's new technology we load our RV with plenty of energy vampires. Video games, TV, computers and chargers for portable devices use power whether they are turned on or not.

RustyJC · 01-02-2012, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pa0gri

If you want to waste resources why worry about mpg?????

I don't believe this discussion has anything to do with "wasting resources." For a given amount of RV heating, the choice for most of us is using electricity or propane. An electric ceramic heater is more thermally efficient in converting energy available at the pedestal plug to BTU output than a propane furnace. As far as emissions are concerned, 100% of the output of a propane furnace is hydrocarbon based while electricity use (depending on a particular area) will have a lesser or greater amount of power from non-hydrocarbon-polluting sources (e.g., hydro, wind, nuclear, geothermal, etc.)

Rusty