Punchlist Coalition

[wayno347]

I've been reading on this and other RV blog sites learning owners of brand new RVs have a "punch list" of 30 or 40 or, in one instance, 100 items for the factory to repair.
Really?
We pay good money, often over $100,000, for these rigs and they have to be returned to where they were built for warranty repairs. This suggests pretty dismal quality control on the assembly line.
Misaligned sewer exits, wrong heat pumps, leaking windshields, dealerships who can care less if repairs are made correctly as long as the factory covers the labor.
How can current and future owners get the attention of RV manufacturers and let them know we don't appreciate these shortcomings, and that tighter QC should be mandated now!
RVAA? Their only role is to have their sticker fixed to sides of RVs, or so it seems.
Let's hear some comments about forming a "Punchlist Coalition" to rail against RV manufacturers who stick it to we RV owners.
Individual legal action, class action lawsuits? Something must be done to gain the RV manufacturers attention.
Why do some RV manufacturers find it necessary have "dispute administrators"? Because they anticipate poor QC will results in phone calls from unhappy buyers?
Something must be done instead of merely driving the rig back to the factory to have repairs made...repairs, and a trip, unnecessary if the factory put the rig together correctly in the first place.
Or am I preaching to the choir on this?

[computerguy]

Me thinks you are preaching to the choir
It's all about money. It's cheaper for them to fix it IF someone discovers the issue and is willing to have their unit out of service for an extended period of time. Not many have that flexibility so they either don't get it fixed or fix it themselves
It's about the almighty dollar. I ran businesses. I bought and sold businesses. It's all about the $$$$$.
As a buyer you can certainly not buy (probably not an option)
Buy a much more expensive unit but even then quality is not guaranteed
Don't sign on the dotted line til the dealer fixes everything before you fork over your hard earned money
There are other options I am sure. The problem is that most people are willing to accept the status quo. Think about elections. How many people complain about this that or something else with this country? Then look at voter turnout. Most people just don't care. That's just my humble opinion. I am curious is I am delirious in my thoughts though. Probably should be a separate thread as this is not just a Fleetwood issue. And I truly believe FW is on the better than average side of the quality equation.

Originally Posted by wayno347

I've been reading on this and other RV blog sites learning owners of brand new RVs have a "punch list" of 30 or 40 or, in one instance, 100 items for the factory to repair.
Really?
We pay good money, often over $100,000, for these rigs and they have to be returned to where they were built for warranty repairs. This suggests pretty dismal quality control on the assembly line.
Misaligned sewer exits, wrong heat pumps, leaking windshields, dealerships who can care less if repairs are made correctly as long as the factory covers the labor.
How can current and future owners get the attention of RV manufacturers and let them know we don't appreciate these shortcomings, and that tighter QC should be mandated now!
RVAA? Their only role is to have their sticker fixed to sides of RVs, or so it seems.
Let's hear some comments about forming a "Punchlist Coalition" to rail against RV manufacturers who stick it to we RV owners.
Individual legal action, class action lawsuits? Something must be done to gain the RV manufacturers attention.
Why do some RV manufacturers find it necessary have "dispute administrators"? Because they anticipate poor QC will results in phone calls from unhappy buyers?
Something must be done instead of merely driving the rig back to the factory to have repairs made...repairs, and a trip, unnecessary if the factory put the rig together correctly in the first place.
Or am I preaching to the choir on this?

[z3406]

Wayne The companies manufacture these RV's to make money. The fact that some of the manufacturers actually build and maintain factory service centers says a lot for those companies. These coaches are built to a price point and what you pay will reflect on the attention to detail of any particular coach. Speaking of my experience with the Fleetwood center the owners of the least expensive entry level coaches get the same level of customer care as the owners of the high end diesel pushers do once they walk in the door in Decatur. I agree with you that a lot of the things wrong with my coach are a direct result of indifferent assembly, lack of attention to detail and carelessness on the assembly line. By me taking my coach to the factory service center I'm hoping there is a feedback loop to the assembly line that will prevent others from having the same issues. It's a lot cheaper for the manufacturer to correct problems during the assembly process than to maintain fully staffed repair facilities that must literally cost them millions of dollars annually to operate. I'ld say about 90% of the issues my coach has had are due to assembly issues not faulty components. The fact that Fleetwood maintains a repair facility reasonably close to where I live is a big reason why I am now on my second Bounder. I would not buy a new coach without the availability of a factory repair facility the fact that Fleetwood operates several in different parts of the country is a big plus for the company in my opinion. Of the 40 some odd items on my repair list now I could probably correct over half of them in an afternoon with a few tools. The only things I am fixing are things that directly effect my ability to use the coach, by letting the service center fix as many as possible I'm trying to give the factory feedback of what they are pushing out the door of the factory. As I travel and talk to owners of other brands of coaches I do know that Fleetwood isn't the only company out there with QC issues. A lot of those owners of some other brands don't have the option of a factory center to help them.

[Gary RVRoamer]

While I don't want to defend the mediocre quality control of the RV industry, let me point out that $100k is an inexpensive motorhome so it should not be surprising if both materials and workmanship are on the crappy side. Yeah, it's a lot of money, but it's not a lot for a complex and sophisticated machine chock full of gadgetry. The better made rigs will run upwards of $250k ($500k+ plus for the larger sizes) and they are made with better materials and workmanship, though they still have problems or just plain poor design issues.

I apologize if you think this is snobbish - that is not my intention.

[timetogo]

Some problems are the result of outright vandalism during assembly. The lack of quality control/oversite is disgusting.

[BRex45]

I think many if not most RV'ers assume their RV will be built to the same standards as their autos. If a new RV was built to automotive standards (built to be parked outside for years with little to no damage to the vehicle, in spite of the elements) I bet the price would be 500% higher. I know I was very surprised the first time I gave my first RV a good look and saw how it was made. Our current RV is better made than our first but an 80's FIAT is more weather and rust resistant.

They just don't manufacture enough RV's to get the cost per unit down to where they could build them like a car.

All of the above IMO!

[ransil]

The standard does not need to be raised it's pretty low right now, working on my 03 class 3 right now, needed a shop vac to remove the construction debris from under the bench seat, holes for stuff look like they were made with a hammer. I know it's not any near a high end coach, but a little pride in work or product would be nice. Auto industry took a while to get there act together, RV industry should think about it.

[dieselclacker]

It was foreign competiton that forced the american auto industry to address quality issues, if it ever gets to that point with the RV industry, I would bet the size of those fixit lists would decrease a whole lot........

[CampDaven]

I thank Monaco for building my coach so well, and also the previous owner for getting any kinks out.


Dave and Nola, RV Mutants

[twogypsies]

Honestly, we had absolutely nothing wrong with our Newmar when we picked it up.

Not all manufacturers put out mass quantities of RVs. Those that do will have the most things wrong.

[Mike and Cha]

Originally Posted by twogypsies

Honestly, we had absolutely nothing wrong with our Newmar when we picked it up.

Not all manufacturers put out mass quantities of RVs. Those that do will have the most things wrong.

X2...When we bought our Newmar the only thing we had on our "punch list" was a small cosmetic piece that our dealer was not happy with upon delivery and he ordered a new one prior to us even looking at it. We would have never noticed it. Other than that absolutely nothing wrong with ours. Two years later still going strong. I think you only hear the horror stories on the forum, not that they are acceptable, but you don't hear about all those who had no issues. Do your research, you get what you pay for.

[nothermark]

FWIW I am reminded of a running discussion with a friend who is looking for a new small MH. The Phoenix Cruiser he is looking at is $90,000. The equivalent other brands are roughly $60,000 for similar chassis and form factor. I would bet the punch list is short if it exists when he buys the unit he wants. OTOH That does reflect the price difference in a short C with the kind of quality folks want vs what they usually are willing to pay for. It would be even higher if Phoenix had to include a dealer markup.

[Dutch Star Don]

Keep in mind, only about 1%-3% of the RV population participate in these forums. Of that small percentage, a large percentage come here to complain, so you don't get a realistic view of problems with the industry. I've had three Lance campers and one Fleetwood Class C and one Fleetwood Class A that had virtually no issues, with the exception of the braking issue with the Workhorse chassis.

I bought my Monaco Diplomat new in 2005 that required only a slide adjustment because it was about a 1/2" off. We bought our Dutch Star new and had a dash blower motor go bad on the first trip. I replaced it myself. The dealer provided a new motor and was ecstatic that I did the repair. I later replaced the microwave because it was cheap and there was a recall. Again, I did it myself.

There are also extremes on here....I believe that occasionally someone will get a lemon and there are others who feel for the money they spent, they aren't going to tighten a screw, but would rather drive it back to the dealer and have them do it and then complain about it.

[nothermark]

FWIW if you want an exercise in understanding go through your MH and make a list of 50 things that might need fixing by the dealer assuming they could be broken but not obvious on a walk through.