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Old 07-27-2011, 06:12 PM   #15
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ADA has been adopted by states, counties and cities building inspection departments for design and enforcement for all building - both PRIVATE and PUBLIC.
CarlGeo
That may be true in 49 states but Florida does not require (enforced or not) a PRIVATE, new residence to meet ADA criteria.
Your post advises that a newly constructed house must for instance have an access ramp at a 1 in 12 pitch for every new home?
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Old 07-31-2011, 04:46 PM   #16
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this will probably ruffle a few feathers,

lately, it has been my observation that the ADA has been filing ALOT of frivolous law suits.
I'm not arguing some people have special needs, but when they (ADA) go out of their way to trap or "create" issues, I find fault with that.
OH I am legally disabled , as classified by the state of calif, do I recieve anything? NOPE! do I feel slighted, NOPE!.
My point, if the guys Dr says he needs special steps, then he should be allowed to purchase them , at NO cost to land owner.
the cost should be borne by the person needing them.

contact an attorney? the only one who benefits is the attorney!
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Old 07-31-2011, 07:27 PM   #17
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lately, it has been my observation that the ADA has been filing ALOT of frivolous law suits.
I'm not arguing some people have special needs, but when they (ADA) go out of their way to trap or "create" issues, I find fault with that.
OH I am legally disabled , as classified by the state of calif, do I recieve anything? NOPE! do I feel slighted, NOPE!.
My point, if the guys Dr says he needs special steps, then he should be allowed to purchase them , at NO cost to land owner.
the cost should be borne by the person needing them.

contact an attorney? the only one who benefits is the attorney!
ADA doesnt have an enforcement wing. Suits involving ADA are brought by agressive attorneys and a disabled person/group who claim to not have access to some facility. And, yes you are correct there are many frivolous suits filed because in many cases defendants will settle and pay a sum of money rather than go to trial. Because almost any facility, new or old can be determined by an 'expert' in ADA facilitation to be definient and thus a target for a suit. Some people have no will do almost anything for money.
ADA is a nightmare for business operators, building owners, real estate developers and architects, and the additional cost to building new facilities that comply with ADA is approximately 25 per cent.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:22 PM   #18
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My point, if the guys Dr says he needs special steps, then he should be allowed to purchase them , at NO cost to land owner.
the cost should be borne by the person needing them.

contact an attorney? the only one who benefits is the attorney!
Maybe I read the OP wrong but my understanding is that they had every intention of paying for his own steps and the "HOA" rules prohibited it because they thought it would be ugly. No excuse IMO.

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ADA is a nightmare for business operators, building owners, real estate developers and architects, and the additional cost to building new facilities that comply with ADA is approximately 25 per cent.
You're saying that compliance with ADA is costing developers and architects an additional 25% in construction costs??? I'd sure like to see some back up on that statement. It amazes me.

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Old 07-31-2011, 08:40 PM   #19
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Maybe I read the OP wrong but my understanding is that they had every intention of paying for his own steps and the "HOA" rules prohibited it because they thought it would be ugly. No excuse IMO.



You're saying that compliance with ADA is costing developers and architects an additional 25% in construction costs??? I'd sure like to see some back up on that statement. It amazes me.

Rick
To confirm the additional costs, not to architects, but private building owners, and public buildings, that's you and me, is to look at the ADA code and go thru a building step by step and tally up the additional items, toilets, ramps, doors, hardware, parking, drinking fountains, handrails, guardrails, and the list goes on and on. Only then could you comprehend the magnitude of ADA on the cost of a building!
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:50 PM   #20
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ADA is a nightmare for business operators, building owners, real estate developers and architects, and the additional cost to building new facilities that comply with ADA is approximately 25 per cent.
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Originally Posted by CarlGeo View Post
To confirm the additional costs, not to architects, but private building owners, and public buildings, that's you and me, is to look at the ADA code and go thru a building step by step and tally up the additional items, toilets, ramps, doors, hardware, parking, drinking fountains, handrails, guardrails, and the list goes on and on. Only then could you comprehend the magnitude of ADA on the cost of a building!
I certainly can't "go through a building step by step and tally up the additional items"... I'm just trying to understand the 25% figure. I can understand the high cost of retrofitting but when included in original design 25% will sure pay for a lot of toilets and ramps.

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Old 07-31-2011, 09:15 PM   #21
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You're saying that compliance with ADA is costing developers and architects an additional 25% in construction costs??? I'd sure like to see some back up on that statement. It amazes me. Rick
I can't confirm or deny a specific percentage of total cost but having built (before retirement) many projects that were subject to ADA requirements and it can be expensive to comply. If one was constructing a multi-story building ADA compliance would be a rather small percentage of total costs. In a small project it can be a much more significant portion of the total.
As an example......ADA required rampways to floating dock systems must have a maximum slope of 1 in 12 ...or 1 inch vertical for every 12 inches horizontally. Just use your imagination and visualize the required ADA compliant rampway for a floating dock system located where the tide range is 8 feet. Bear in mind that ADA prevents single rampways in excess of 40 feet. You can do the math.
There is an alterrnative.........an elevator.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:10 AM   #22
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can a deeded lot rv park tell you that you cannot have specific steps on your motorhome when your doctor has said you cannot climb certain height steps - does this go against ada?
Can you give us more information? Are you staying on a lot owned by others, or is it your lot? What is their step criteria vs that suggested by your doctor?

I don't think this is really an ADA question, so many of the responses were a bit off topic, although interesting.

My recollection of ADA is that regarding exterior acommodations, they don't have specifications regarding steps, they are concerned with sidewalks, parking and approaches to buildings. Step height is usually a local building code issue. ADA basically requires that facilities providing public acommodation, and that does not include private residences, must provide a pathway to the primary entrances which, if over a 5% grade (1 in 20) must provide a ramp (maximum 1 in 12 slope) with a landing every so often and they require tactile strips when a walk enters a street. And lots of other requirements. But I have no recollection regarding step height. I am sure someone will correct me in the specifics.

And step height on your personal RV is really none of their business, I would ask to see the rules in writing. It would make sense that they may have some rules for step height for permanent installations, but for your RV, I doubt it. It could be a local manager's incorrect interpretation of a code requirement applying to your RV. Now, if they do have such a stupid rule, and you agreed to it when you purchased your lot, then you are stuck with it until you get the condo association to change the rules.

My two cents, for what it is worth.
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Old 08-03-2011, 03:25 PM   #23
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Nothing is ever what it seems to be. Could it be that the OP wants a different set of steps with maybe a porch for a chair that the HOA is objecting to? Could this be like the multiple disputes over flying the US flag that have been in the news? Could this be similar to the covenants on land deeds that restrict what color you paint your house? Or could it even be as simple as a personal dispute between the head of the HOA and the OP? Of course it could.

Lots of interesting opinions, like the one about ADA requireing private building to be ADA compliant. How would that ever work? Go look at a new house and see if all the doorways are wide enough for a wheelchair, all closets with rods low enough for a wheelchair bound person, if all toilets have grab bars, all tubs have walk thru doors, ramps on the front steps and elevators to the second floor. If you find a house that doesn't have all these ADA requirements then you can pretty well disregard statements about ADA requirements for ALL new construction public and private being in the building codes.
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Old 08-03-2011, 03:43 PM   #24
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Nothing is ever what it seems to be. Could it be that the OP wants a different set of steps with maybe a porch for a chair that the HOA is objecting to? Could this be like the multiple disputes over flying the US flag that have been in the news? Could this be similar to the covenants on land deeds that restrict what color you paint your house? Or could it even be as simple as a personal dispute between the head of the HOA and the OP? Of course it could.

Lots of interesting opinions, like the one about ADA requireing private building to be ADA compliant. How would that ever work? Go look at a new house and see if all the doorways are wide enough for a wheelchair, all closets with rods low enough for a wheelchair bound person, if all toilets have grab bars, all tubs have walk thru doors, ramps on the front steps and elevators to the second floor. If you find a house that doesn't have all these ADA requirements then you can pretty well disregard statements about ADA requirements for ALL new construction public and private being in the building codes.
All areas of the country does not have building codes, but cities, counties and states that have building codes require all new construction conform to ADA.
All private dwellings, apartments, etc do not have to comply with ADA, but depending upon the individual case, the new structure must comply.
Until you have seen the codes, read the codes, and have them apply to your building project, you cannot know just how pervasive they are. How about high school footfield bleachers seating two thousand people with a small press-box at the top. ADA requires disabled access to the press-box, either with a remp or elevator!
Read the ADA code, and it will open eyes to what our laws really are doing to us.
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:38 AM   #25
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Having studied the UBC (Uniform Building Code) and taking written tests on it for promotions I would say that perhaps I have a little inkling of what is in it.

New construction is required to meet the building code unless it can be proven to be an unreasonable hardship. For example a new fire watch lookout tower doesn't have to have an elevator just in case a disabled park worker happens to get the job sometime in the future. The local High School doesn't have to retrofit a ramp or elevator to the press box just because a disabled reporter happens to get that beat. They can provide a suitable place for him/her to do the job from instead of the press box. I'm sure you've seen "reasonable accomodation" mentioned in your readings of ADA requirements as it is a prominent part.

Your statement is a little hard to understand because you say "have building codes require all new construction conform to ADA" then "All private dwellings, apartments, etc do not have to comply with ADA".

Private dwellings do not have to comply with ADA. (period) Commercial buildings MAY be subject to ADA. New construction must comply with applicable building codes which have some ADA requirements written in or adopted specifically in addition to the "code". Most cities will adopt the boilerplate "code" with specific exemptions and additions.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:41 PM   #26
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this is our deeded lot in a RV park. My husband is a retired builder and made wooden steps and carpeted them. They are three steps instead of the two steps that are attached to the motorhome so they are not big and it is what the doctor has said I need instead of the steeper two steps on the motorhome. The condo docs say that you cannot have wooden structures, such as porches/decks/steps. When they had their board meeting, they said that they will have to have a doctors letter and will take each case into consideration separately, because of compliance with ada. I provided them with my doctors letter, but the board said no to the steps. Apparently, they are only enforcing the condo docs rule on owners as many people who just rent a lot have detached steps and wooden landings that are carpeted in ugly, ripped carpet. So my question was has anyone else dealt with an ada issue before.
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Old 08-04-2011, 02:15 PM   #27
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Having studied the UBC (Uniform Building Code) and taking written tests on it for promotions I would say that perhaps I have a little inkling of what is in it.

New construction is required to meet the building code unless it can be proven to be an unreasonable hardship. For example a new fire watch lookout tower doesn't have to have an elevator just in case a disabled park worker happens to get the job sometime in the future. The local High School doesn't have to retrofit a ramp or elevator to the press box just because a disabled reporter happens to get that beat. They can provide a suitable place for him/her to do the job from instead of the press box. I'm sure you've seen "reasonable accomodation" mentioned in your readings of ADA requirements as it is a prominent part.

Your statement is a little hard to understand because you say "have building codes require all new construction conform to ADA" then "All private dwellings, apartments, etc do not have to comply with ADA".

Private dwellings do not have to comply with ADA. (period) Commercial buildings MAY be subject to ADA. New construction must comply with applicable building codes which have some ADA requirements written in or adopted specifically in addition to the "code". Most cities will adopt the boilerplate "code" with specific exemptions and additions.
Uniform Building Codes are no longer in effect. Current code is the International Building Code, and is in effect for all 50 states.
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:33 PM   #28
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this is our deeded lot in a RV park. My husband is a retired builder and made wooden steps and carpeted them. They are three steps instead of the two steps that are attached to the motorhome so they are not big and it is what the doctor has said I need instead of the steeper two steps on the motorhome. The condo docs say that you cannot have wooden structures, such as porches/decks/steps. When they had their board meeting, they said that they will have to have a doctors letter and will take each case into consideration separately, because of compliance with ada. I provided them with my doctors letter, but the board said no to the steps. Apparently, they are only enforcing the condo docs rule on owners as many people who just rent a lot have detached steps and wooden landings that are carpeted in ugly, ripped carpet. So my question was has anyone else dealt with an ada issue before.
Since their issue is with the carpeted steps go to your local hot tub store and buy a set of composite tub steps. Many colors and multiple tread heights and numbers.
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