Community Forums

Monacoach · 04-01-2018, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waywards

Ah I did answer your question...

I admit defeat. Clearly I don't understand something the rest of you do.

We are here to teach you

Off Road · 04-01-2018, 04:24 PM

If you have ever flown in a commercial jet you have been experienced a computer being in control. Most modern jets mostly fly by computer.

Self driving cars, trucks, and RV’s are our only hope for dealing with congestion on our freeways. As the population continues to grow we can’t build enough freeways to handle the increasing numbers of drivers. Even if we do accident rates are increasing with the invention of the smart phone and people using them while driving. Every accident causes further slowdowns on already packed freeways. The biggest help to congested freeways is how computer driven vehicles will be able to flow and smooth out the start stop cycles of heavy traffic. People won’t be jamming on the brakes and then zooming forward when there is some space in front of them. Impatient lane swapping will be eliminated when the computer is in charge. I can’t wait for our first self driving car and RV.

timjet · 04-01-2018, 05:21 PM

This debate seems to have landed on the accident in AZ. This accident should not have happened. Clearly the technology did not work as intended. The NTSB is investigating because this is an autonomous vehicle, and Uber is under investigation for knowingly allowing their vehicle on the road with known defects in their software, hardware or both.

This single incident should not be the poster child for continuing or discontinuing the progress made toward self driving vehicles. Those who are trying use this accident to further their agenda are just not looking at the facts. If further investigation finds that Uber indeed knowingly endangered people because of a know defect(s) I hope those in charge pull Uber's license to operate such vehicles. Uber in my opinion if the facts above are correct has a serious integrity problem and has given fuel for argument to those who wish to make whatever excuse they can to stop progress in self driving cars.

Monacoach · 04-01-2018, 05:48 PM

so uber will be the scape goat? maybe but the az accident is just the tip of the iceberg. wait and see what happens when more of theses self driving cars hit the roads.
The Az accident is a disaster for the people who are pushing the technology because it clearly shows that computers cannot replace the human brain. But on the other hand it doesn't seem to matter how many mass murders occur...... greed always seems to prevail over human life.

MotorPro · 04-01-2018, 05:55 PM

Everyone is talking about the crash with the lady on the bike. What about the Tesla that drove straight into the side of a semi. Teslas response was that it wasn't their fault because " there was no way it could tell the difference between a white truck and a cloud." WHAT? Sure I'm going to trust a self driving car......not. Can you imagine what it would do on a blizzard with the lines on the road covered?

timjet · 04-01-2018, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monacoach

...
The Az accident is a disaster for the people who are pushing the technology because it clearly shows that computers cannot replace the human brain. .....

Glad you feel that way. If not I fear computers would get rid of us humans.

rarebear.nm · 04-01-2018, 06:10 PM

Technology almost never goes back in the bottle. You accept computers with your life all the time. Many if not most traffic lights are computer operated, much of your car functions with IT, air traffic is dependent on computer network systems, trains, etc.

Are self driving cars perfect, not at all. Are human drivers perfect, not by a long shot. I think there's a much higher probability that self driving vehicles will become safer much faster than humans will improve.

MRUSA14 · 04-01-2018, 06:25 PM

People, the accident car in Arizona was an experimental prototype. Obviously more research needs to be done to improve it. Just because that prototype has flaws doesn't mean that future driverless cars will not be "safe". (Let's face it, no car is 100% safe and never will be.) But in the future, driverless cars will be much safer than human-driven ones, even though they will still have accidents.

You can't properly evaluate this issue only by analyzing this one tragic accident. It would be like evaluating the future safety of air transport by only looking at the Wright Brothers' airplane.

Monacoach · 04-01-2018, 06:44 PM

How can you compare aviation to auto traffic. Whens the last time a bicyclist darted out from behind a cloud in the sky into the path of a plane? If an autonomous vehicle could drive with a 20 mile cusion of other vehicles and obstacles then maybe you can make a comparison. Maybe self driving could work in the desert but in the city the human brain in all its faults has the intelligence mixed with emotion that a computer will never have.

Searching_Ut · 04-01-2018, 07:39 PM

Having spent my whole career working in the technology world, much of it with autonomous air platforms or weapons I firmly believe cars that drive themselves are part of our future. That said, I think that future is farther away than many here seem to be envisioning. Since the early 80's, the mantra of the computer tech folks has been that Artificial intelligence will be here within the next 10 years. Of course that has always turned out to be extremely overly optimistic.

From what I've seen, companies like Uber, and Tesla have been a little too optimistic when it comes to beta testing their systems with the general public. They still need a lot of work when it comes to sensor/computer redundancy, artificial intelligence in predictive accident avoidance, and a whole lot more work when it comes to the human vehicle interface when it comes to handing control of the vehicle back and forth as required. The crashes by Uber, and Tesla this month were both with companies that are overly pushing the tech right now in my opinion. Many other companies are farther along in development, especially when it comes to safety and system redundancy. My guess from what I know about them however is that we're at least 10 years out until they start implementing self driving cars with limited capabilities, and quite a bit beyond that before anything you'd call self driving in virtually all situations. Of course there needs to be a whole lot more work on system security as well. Imagine the chaos that could ensue should a hacker be able to get into the system in any meaningful way.

Once the technology is in fact ready, I personally think auto driving cars will be considerably better and safer than human driven vehicles. Man is simply much more easily distracted or otherwise mentally disengaged to be fully reliable.

rarebear.nm · 04-01-2018, 07:40 PM

No need to try to make flying bikes. I was in an extremely near mid-air collusion. My flight and another went belly to belly on wing tips to clear- human error. Part of the issue is closing speeds between objects and response times. The computer system will win out in every case. You do use ABS brakes right? Can you match that performance, that's why ABS is used every where today. Never say never. Folks said we'd never fly, never fly faster than speed of sound, never go to the moon, etc, etc. So much for the nay sayers. The hard problems only take longer to solve.

Like Searching, I've also spent my entire career in IT. Part of it in software development part of it in network security. As a society we put far greater importance (value) on new features at the expense of security. Security is frequently implemented as an after thought when problems are made highly public. Until developers design security into their products from the initial concept there will be a high potential for problems. Not just for cars but all IT related products, like the "Internet of Things" concept.

Seems strange to me one death by an improperly used semi-automonus car creates this much coverage when we average in the order of 80 to 100 vehicle related deaths every day. Why do accept that as a society? You won't stuff the genie back in the bottle. We will live with this in time.

Waywards · 04-01-2018, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monacoach

so uber will be the scape goat? maybe but the az accident is just the tip of the iceberg. wait and see what happens when more of theses self driving cars hit the roads.
The Az accident is a disaster for the people who are pushing the technology because it clearly shows that computers cannot replace the human brain. But on the other hand it doesn't seem to matter how many mass murders occur...... greed always seems to prevail over human life.

Wasn't there a human in the car? I thought the human was there to prevent this from happening.

Off Road · 04-01-2018, 08:26 PM

As others have mentioned, cars are already partially self driving. There is no way a human can stop a car as fast as a computer can modulate the brakes, thus we have ABS on all new cars. My wife drives an Acura with their super handling all wheel drive. I have tried to make it spin out, power slide, all sorts of crazy things in an empty snow covered parking lot. Despite my efforts it was a decidedly boring experience. The car just goes where it is supposed to, the computer takes over and handles the braking, throttle inputs etc. You can’t make that car slide around. I don’t care how “good” you are at driving in the snow, how many years you have spent in snow country, that cars computer just does it better.

Monacoach · 04-01-2018, 08:47 PM

There is of course technology such as abs braking installed to assist the human brain but we are discussing technology that is intended to replace humans.

If the government were interested in cutting down fatal accidents they could easily impose speed limiters but we dont want that and we are the voters.

Someone mentioned that there was a human in the autonomous vehicle at the time of the az accident. Yes and we saw that she was trusting the car to do its thing.while she was texting . There will always be humans in these vehicles but they wont be watching the road.