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Old 08-02-2014, 12:15 AM   #29
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Thanks Everyone

This claim is through the repair shops's insurance, not mine...and I have an email from the repair shop owner stating her remorse, and that...."we will make you whole"....Honestly, the Farmer's appraiser is inept....he has already completed his appraisal...he sent me an email today saying he would let me know Monday what that appraisal is. I asked him if it included our personal possessions...which was on a spreadsheet I emailed him....he says he did not see it (that list was on a second tab inI had also emailed him a file that was a photo of our bill of sale from 2 weeks previous. I took the picture from my cell phone...the picture when you download it is very small and you cannot zoom in to see the details (which I did not realize)...until he told me today..."...you emailed me file that is really small..that I can't see...what is this?" So, I told him it was our bill of sale....So, he has done the appraisal without even considering the bill of sale, nor did he pay attention to my original email as to the file that gave him directions as to the spreadhsheet that included our personal possessions.

I really appreciate everyone's input and advice....I hope I run into you someday...drinks on me.
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Old 08-02-2014, 06:36 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by jeryan59 View Post
This isn't necessarily true, I had an agreed value policy I purchased from Progressive in 2001 and maintained it until March 2012 when my motorhome burned and Progressive wrote me a check for the full amount.

My current coach also has an agreed value endorsement on it as well.
X 2 for us also. Farmers-Foremost.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:15 PM   #31
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Your "agreed value" policy is different than the standard market value (ACV) coverage that Rooster referred to. But the point is moot, since at this point he is dealing with the other party's liability insurance rather than his own theft coverage.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:27 PM   #32
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The appraiser does his appraisal as instructed by the insurance company. He works for them, not for you. He probably isn't the actual claims adjuster either. Don't waste time dealing with him - find out who represents the insurer to offer a settlement.

The process is frustrating but it will probably work out ok once the insurer goes through their standard procedures. In addition, you don't have to deal with the insurer's policy limits or other constraints - it is the shop that is liable for the replacement of your RV and goods. If their insurer doesn't cover everything, the shop is still on the hook for the balance.

You need to establish the amount you are willing to accept in compensation, i.e. enough to cover replacement of everything you lost. The new RV is a no-brainer - there are no two-week old replacement RVs for sale, so they are going to have to pay for a new one at market value. It's the value of your used possessions that is going to require some negotiation. You need a list of the personal items, with as much documentation as you can manage, and what you feel is the current market value for each. Don't forget that some items on the RV may be considered personal property, e.g. a tow bar or other add-on equipment. Go over the insurers estimate for the RV carefully to make sure every item is covered somewhere, as either part of the RV or personal property.

If you can reach an acceptable figure with the insurer, just tell their rep you will be filing a lawsuit against the shop for compensation. Don't yell about it, just state that the courts will have to determine whose numbers are more correct. Most likely the insurer is obligated to defend the shop as well, so they can decide if they want to spend money on lawyers or on the settlement. Also, politely inform the shop that you are filing suit because their insurer hasn't come up with an acceptable figure.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:48 PM   #33
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This claim is through the repair shops's insurance, not mine...andI have an email from the repair shop owner stating her remorse, and that...."we will make you whole"....Honestly, the Farmer's appraiser is inept....
I really appreciate everyone's input and advice....I hope I run into you someday...drinks on me.
I think with that email, It sounds like You have them by the short hairs.
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Old 08-02-2014, 04:28 PM   #34
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There is a web page that turbo tax uses for donation calculations.

It is not turbo tax but some company...

It uses ebay and other sources to determine value of items donated and values are on the high side.

You should try to locate something like that to use for values if personnal stuff that you do not have receipt for.

It provides a report of all items so if you can find it then the personnal stuff should be easy
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:18 AM   #35
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A few points:

One, attorney's don't work for free, and their bill is not added to your claim reimbursement - something that is overlooked or ignored by the well meaning friends that suggest you hire one.

Two, it would be interesting to know just why the shop's insurance company is taking any responsibility for this, as clearly they are, it is not clear from what has been posted. There has to be either some state specific legislation, some negligence on the part of the shop (and just the fact that it was parked there doesn't qualify) or some specialty insurance coverage the shop purchased.

As to the valuation, the methods used can vary and/or may be dictated by state law (although no-one ever complains if they get more than they expected). Loose the families Chevy sedan and there are dozens available for sale in the local area at any given time to help establish market value. Low volume vehicles are more of a challenge but I don't think your purchase price is so far above what you represent as book value to be worth an argument - I'd have just reimbursed you that full amount, including taxes. I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that requires the insurance company to provide an actual replacement vehicle, and I can just imagine the challenges if they did. Finding one would be the "easy" part.

Personal property claims are a challenge, and thankfully not something I had to deal with often. Most companies will give you the benefit of the doubt, within reason. I had a stolen vehicle claim once and besides the vehicle the owner was trying to convince his homeowners insurance that his wife was storing her fur coats and a lot of expensive jewelry in it at the time it was stolen.

Good luck.
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Old 08-03-2014, 11:05 AM   #36
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A few points:
......
Two, it would be interesting to know just why the shop's insurance company is taking any responsibility for this, as clearly they are, it is not clear from what has been posted. There has to be either some state specific legislation, some negligence on the part of the shop (and just the fact that it was parked there doesn't qualify) or some specialty insurance coverage the shop purchased.
The fact is was at a repair shop means it was in their CARE and custody.
They are responsible from drop off till it is returned to the customer, just the same as if an employee crashing it on a test drive. any company that says just because it was here doesn't mean it was covered it just dodging responsibility.

Quote:
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As to the valuation, the methods used can vary and/or may be dictated by state law (although no-one ever complains if they get more than they expected). Loose the families Chevy sedan and there are dozens available for sale in the local area at any given time to help establish market value. Low volume vehicles are more of a challenge but I don't think your purchase price is so far above what you represent as book value to be worth an argument - I'd have just reimbursed you that full amount, including taxes. I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that requires the insurance company to provide an actual replacement vehicle, and I can just imagine the challenges if they did. Finding one would be the "easy" part.
....
This one in particular really should be quite easy since any claim of depreciation from purchase price by the insurance company is Nil in the period of 2 weeks.

And then you have the apologizing email that says "We will make you whole"

They should get EVERY penny out of pocket they spent , No more-no less
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:32 AM   #37
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One, attorney's don't work for free, and their bill is not added to your claim reimbursement - something that is overlooked or ignored by the well meaning friends that suggest you hire one.
Mostly right. Recovery of your attorney fees can be made part of a lawsuit if it comes to that, but otherwise are not recoverable.

Quote:
Two, it would be interesting to know just why the shop's insurance company is taking any responsibility for this,
Once it is in the shops care, they have a basic responsibility to protect it adequately. That's well-establish in civil law.

Quote:
I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that requires the insurance company to provide an actual replacement vehicle, and I can just imagine the challenges if they did. Finding one would be the "easy" part.
Agree that the company doesn't have to deliver an actual vehicle, but a common test for validating the proposed settlement amount is identification of a comparable replacement, available for that amount, in that region. That's fundamentally how a fair market value is established.
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:03 PM   #38
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Mostly right. Recovery of your attorney fees can be made part of a lawsuit if it comes to that, but otherwise are not recoverable.

Even then, don't count on it, depending on laws in your jurisdiction. You may get something less than your actual costs, especially if your attorney is working on a contingency basis (typically they'll take up to 1/3 of anything you recover) rather than by the hour.

Once it is in the shops care, they have a basic responsibility to protect it adequately. That's well-establish in civil law.

Yes, "basic responsibility". If it's behind a locked gate, or inside a locked building when the loss occurs they may be found to have met that responsibility and be "off the hook" in terms of any liability. In some jurisdictions if it's in a lighted lot, and they locked the door of the RV, they may have met their legal responsibility. Each jurisdiction has it's own definition of "reasonable precautions". As they obviously are taking responsibility here, I'm merely curious as to why. The fact that they are is all good for you.

Agree that the company doesn't have to deliver an actual vehicle, but a common test for validating the proposed settlement amount is identification of a comparable replacement, available for that amount, in that region. That's fundamentally how a fair market value is established.
That was my point in suggesting there is a difference between trying to establish the ACV (Actual Cash Value) of the family sedan and a much lower sales volume vehicle. The true comparables may be miles or even states away. The company has to be able to explain their evaluation process, but they can't manufacture a market that does not exist.

Most of what we (when I was working auto claims) did was based on common sense and state law (which did not always make sense, and we'd get the blame for that). We'd have people refuse to accept a vehicle as comparable because it wasn't the same color as the one they lost. We wouldn't be trying to make them take that car, just help them understand how we arrived at our settlement offer.

The fact that you've suffered a loss sucks. Neither you or the company are responsible for your having suffered the loss, nor can they ever make you absolutely 100% "whole" again, especially when you consider your lost time, frustration - and perhaps the exact vehicle you lost is not currently available, at any price. A good company will work hard to get you as close to 100% as possible and will typically be willing to be a bit flexible, if you are.

Again, good luck.
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:43 PM   #39
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Settlement Offer

Good news, Farmer's has offered to pay us our full purchase price, plus taxes, license, and fees. That's the big one. The bad news is that they did not even address our list of personal possessions. Not one item. This was a fairly conservative list...dishes, glassware, my tools and toolbox, a couple fishing poles, tackle box, and other misc items tht you would typically find in the family MH during the summer.

Now, most of these items are 5 plus years old...I don't have receipts for this stuff. Just a limited number of photographs of these items in real life from when we had our previous travel trailer.

Guess I will wait for my email response on this question tomorrow.
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:50 PM   #40
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Glad to hear you are on your way to a settlement.

Not sure if you have a S&B yet, but if you do I think those things may be covered under your Home Owners Policy. JMHO
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:52 PM   #41
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Was farmers their carrier?

Follow up with your homeowners policy as it may cover personal stuff.

As others have stated you may be out of luck on those but at least your mh is covered.
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:28 PM   #42
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Good to hear.

I too would check with the home owners policy and perhaps ask the business owner to "make you whole again."
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