Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > iRV2.com General Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-17-2012, 10:20 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Rook's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Solo Rvers Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: FT for 6 years, NW in the summer, S in winter.
Posts: 1,092
This might help you track down the problem. Rook

RV Chassis Guide
__________________

__________________
When you get a chance to dance, or sit this one out......I hope you DANCE!

98 National Tradewinds 7370, powered by a 3126B 300HP CAT Turbo, Freightliner XC chassis
Rook is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-17-2012, 10:29 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rook View Post
When you said the RV mechanic shorted the starter solenoid and it started, I assume he shorted across the terminals that supplied 12V to the solenoid coil....if that is correct, then that says the starter solenoid and the starter are good. However, like on my coach, you may also have a "starter relay" which gets a signal (12V) from the ignition switch and it closes and connects 12v to the starter solenoid. The "starter relay" may be bad (mine was) but if it is good and simply not getting 12V from the ignition, then the you have an ignition system problem. Rook
Thanks, Rook...
Where is this second solenoid you are talking about? Is it on that board with 5 or 6 solenoids in the engine compartment? Mine is above the engine lid, where I can see it if I look upwards. It's very neatly laid out with a lot of battery cables and solenoids, almost like a wiring diagram. Thanks for your thinking on this!
__________________

__________________
2004 Tiffin Allegro 27.5 ft. P32 18,000 lb GVW. 8.1 liter. Workhorse chassis built May 2002. 21,000 miles. 2012 Jeep Liberty Toad. RVi2 brake unit.
Full.Monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 10:57 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Rook's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Solo Rvers Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: FT for 6 years, NW in the summer, S in winter.
Posts: 1,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full.Monte View Post
Thanks, Rook...
Where is this second solenoid you are talking about? Is it on that board with 5 or 6 solenoids in the engine compartment? Mine is above the engine lid, where I can see it if I look upwards. It's very neatly laid out with a lot of battery cables and solenoids, almost like a wiring diagram. Thanks for your thinking on this!
My engine setup is quite different than yours.....I have a rear Cat diesel on a Freightliner chassis, however, there is a fair chance that the starting system is wired similarly. My "starter relay" (looks like an older regular small engine starter solenoid) is located on a metal plate along with some DC breakers, etc, just in front of the engine on the forward wall. Your's, if you have one, will be located not far from the starter solenoid, If you can, trace the wires from the starter solenoid back to the starter relay you should find it.....if you have one. Rook
__________________
When you get a chance to dance, or sit this one out......I hope you DANCE!

98 National Tradewinds 7370, powered by a 3126B 300HP CAT Turbo, Freightliner XC chassis
Rook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 11:10 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,217
Ditto on the starter switch, that would explain the issue perfectly. Started to fail, some wiggling & it restarted, crapped out fully. This is a known problem on these rigs. Failure means it won't send 12V to the solenoid to invoke starting. You may be able to get a new switch from a local auto parts joint, but should install the relay upgrade DieselClacker mentioned.
__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 10:09 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 940
Hi Guys,

It's raining and I'm sitting under a patio umbrella to post this.

I spent some time working on the ignition switch today. Does anyone know how it's supposed to come apart? Do I have to remove the steering wheel to get to the ignition switch? I have all of the plastic shrouds removed and there are no more removable parts except for the emergency flasher button at 4 o'clock on the column. I don't want to remove the steering wheel because it requires a small puller. I will try if I have to, but it won't be easy.

Thanks again for your helpful suggestions.
__________________
2004 Tiffin Allegro 27.5 ft. P32 18,000 lb GVW. 8.1 liter. Workhorse chassis built May 2002. 21,000 miles. 2012 Jeep Liberty Toad. RVi2 brake unit.
Full.Monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 07:08 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
windydaboo's Avatar
 
Florida Cooters Club
Fleetwood Owners Club
Coastal Campers
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: All over the place
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full.Monte View Post
Hi Guys,

It's raining and I'm sitting under a patio umbrella to post this.

I spent some time working on the ignition switch today. Does anyone know how it's supposed to come apart? Do I have to remove the steering wheel to get to the ignition switch? I have all of the plastic shrouds removed and there are no more removable parts except for the emergency flasher button at 4 o'clock on the column. I don't want to remove the steering wheel because it requires a small puller. I will try if I have to, but it won't be easy.

Thanks again for your helpful suggestions.
No, the starter/ignition switch is located at the bottom of the column on the right side. Being a P32 I assume it is a GM steering column. When the key cyl. is turned it pushes a rod that runs the lenghth of the column, that rod pushes the top of the ignition switch. If you look at the bottom right of the column while turning the key, you will see how it works. The only wires that run in the column itself are the turn signal/horn and cruise wires. So when someone told you the wires could wear because of the tilt moving, they must have been thinking of the turn signal wires, which can rub and short. (FYI.. your brakes lights also run through the turn signal switch) It is usually the purple wire that goes to the starter motor. For your starting issue, that is the wire to be checking since you can jump the starter terminals and it works. I doubt, but could be wrong, that there are any relays to be concerned of. The coach builder probably won't be messing with this cicuit since it is part of the P32 chassis that the builder then added a big complicated box to.

As for the engine dying while running... The reason I mentioned the fusible links is because they can burn, but as soon as someone touches or plays with them a little,(such as when your helper was down there jumping the stater) the burnt ends can touch, restoring the circuit. Im my previous life, turning wrenches professionally for 20 odd years, I have come across this many times. The most plausible reason for it dying would be an ignition module. It is very common for the module to be an intermittent problem, cutting out when it gets hot. but since these are pricey, I thought it best to mention the links first, since they power the module. This is a very common issue with Fords, not so much with GM's.

On a side note.... There is one very valuable thing I have learned on this site. Do not pay much attention to the "Senior Member" or "Junior Member" or "Member" status on this site. Those designations are given by how many posts that person has made, not the quality or correctness of the advice given. Some folks on here say hello to everyone or answer a problem with "I can't help you with your issue, but welcome and good luck" and have thousands of posts and many campfires by their name, but don't really know what they are talking about. There are many knowledgeable folks on here always willing to help and give very good advice and I have refferred to them many times. However, there are also very many "senior member" folks who are just guessing and will point you the wrong way. No offense or disrespect meant, but it is what it is.
__________________
'97 Fleetwood Discovery 36RS
'01 Road Star Midnight Star Edition '77 CJ-7 factory V8
'69 1600 VW Sand Rail '09 EZGO RXV Custom Golf Cart
windydaboo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 08:15 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
Rook's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Solo Rvers Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: FT for 6 years, NW in the summer, S in winter.
Posts: 1,092
Also, some members offer advice based on what they have experienced on their one and only personal coach and unless their coach is the same model and make as yours, then the advice, even though being well meant, can be misleading. Rook
__________________
When you get a chance to dance, or sit this one out......I hope you DANCE!

98 National Tradewinds 7370, powered by a 3126B 300HP CAT Turbo, Freightliner XC chassis
Rook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 08:50 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
windydaboo's Avatar
 
Florida Cooters Club
Fleetwood Owners Club
Coastal Campers
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: All over the place
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rook View Post
Also, some members offer advice based on what they have experienced on their one and only personal coach and unless their coach is the same model and make as yours, then the advice, even though being well meant, can be misleading. Rook
I fully agree... although noting their current RV may be misleading.

My current coach is a diesel pusher and I am still learning it's systems since this is an entirely different set up than my previous coach, which was a P32 like the OP's.
Being unfamillar with Cummins engines and air brakes, I come here or use the dealer to learn what I need to do for repairs. I'm also lucky enough to have career diesel mechanics as friends. The Chevy set up in my P32 I knew like the back of my hand, especially since the majority of my career was spent turning wrenches as a ASE Master Tech in GM dealerships.
__________________
'97 Fleetwood Discovery 36RS
'01 Road Star Midnight Star Edition '77 CJ-7 factory V8
'69 1600 VW Sand Rail '09 EZGO RXV Custom Golf Cart
windydaboo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 09:07 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
Rook's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Solo Rvers Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: FT for 6 years, NW in the summer, S in winter.
Posts: 1,092
Windy......it's members like you that have actual, hands-on, real world experience who are willing to take the time to offer "free" advice that makes this Forum so valuable. Rook
__________________
When you get a chance to dance, or sit this one out......I hope you DANCE!

98 National Tradewinds 7370, powered by a 3126B 300HP CAT Turbo, Freightliner XC chassis
Rook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 09:14 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
windydaboo's Avatar
 
Florida Cooters Club
Fleetwood Owners Club
Coastal Campers
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: All over the place
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rook View Post
Windy......it's members like you that have actual, hands-on, real world experience who are willing to take the time to offer "free" advice that makes this Forum so valuable. Rook

Thank you very much, Rook...

I'm just trying to pay back all the great advice I have received from others. Many on here have forgotton more than we will ever know.

None of us are too old to learn new tricks!!
__________________
'97 Fleetwood Discovery 36RS
'01 Road Star Midnight Star Edition '77 CJ-7 factory V8
'69 1600 VW Sand Rail '09 EZGO RXV Custom Golf Cart
windydaboo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 01:01 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by windydaboo View Post
No, the starter/ignition switch is located at the bottom of the column on the right side. Being a P32 I assume it is a GM steering column. When the key cyl. is turned it pushes a rod that runs the lenghth of the column, that rod pushes the top of the ignition switch. If you look at the bottom right of the column while turning the key, you will see how it works. The only wires that run in the column itself are the turn signal/horn and cruise wires. So when someone told you the wires could wear because of the tilt moving, they must have been thinking of the turn signal wires, which can rub and short. (FYI.. your brakes lights also run through the turn signal switch) It is usually the purple wire that goes to the starter motor. For your starting issue, that is the wire to be checking since you can jump the starter terminals and it works. I doubt, but could be wrong, that there are any relays to be concerned of. The coach builder probably won't be messing with this cicuit since it is part of the P32 chassis that the builder then added a big complicated box to.

As for the engine dying while running... The reason I mentioned the fusible links is because they can burn, but as soon as someone touches or plays with them a little,(such as when your helper was down there jumping the stater) the burnt ends can touch, restoring the circuit. Im my previous life, turning wrenches professionally for 20 odd years, I have come across this many times. The most plausible reason for it dying would be an ignition module. It is very common for the module to be an intermittent problem, cutting out when it gets hot. but since these are pricey, I thought it best to mention the links first, since they power the module. This is a very common issue with Fords, not so much with GM's.

On a side note.... There is one very valuable thing I have learned on this site. Do not pay much attention to the "Senior Member" or "Junior Member" or "Member" status on this site. Those designations are given by how many posts that person has made, not the quality or correctness of the advice given. Some folks on here say hello to everyone or answer a problem with "I can't help you with your issue, but welcome and good luck" and have thousands of posts and many campfires by their name, but don't really know what they are talking about. There are many knowledgeable folks on here always willing to help and give very good advice and I have refferred to them many times. However, there are also very many "senior member" folks who are just guessing and will point you the wrong way. No offense or disrespect meant, but it is what it is.
Thanks! I'm looking at the wrong end of the steering column! I will now redirect my attention. I appreciate the help from you guys! It's time to get wrenching!
__________________
2004 Tiffin Allegro 27.5 ft. P32 18,000 lb GVW. 8.1 liter. Workhorse chassis built May 2002. 21,000 miles. 2012 Jeep Liberty Toad. RVi2 brake unit.
Full.Monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 12:46 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
windydaboo's Avatar
 
Florida Cooters Club
Fleetwood Owners Club
Coastal Campers
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: All over the place
Posts: 237
Howdy! Just checking up with you to see how the repair/diagnosis is going. Hopefully, it's going well. Let us know what you come up with and what it took to repair it. This could be valuable information for future visitors with similar issues.
__________________
'97 Fleetwood Discovery 36RS
'01 Road Star Midnight Star Edition '77 CJ-7 factory V8
'69 1600 VW Sand Rail '09 EZGO RXV Custom Golf Cart
windydaboo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 01:11 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 940
The Fix!

I sent this yesterday, but it got lost in the ether.

Bottom line...the problem is fixed. The ignition switch turned into a bit of a problem. I couldn't find it on the right side of the column or any other part of the column. It turned out it was hiding on the back side of the steering column (between the steering column and the firewall) just below the dashboard. We even looked inside the steering column for the switch. That was a big mistake both in time and effort. Once we found the ignition switch hiding on the column, we removed it and did some continuity checks against a new switch we picked up at a Napa dealer 30 miles away. The two switches tested differently, so we had some confidence that the old switch was defective. We installed the new switch. The "no start, no crank" problem still existed. It turned out that the Neutral Safety Switch on the side of the transmission had a electrical connector that had worked loose and was half way out of the socket. A-Ha! I pushed it back in and confidently tried the key again. No dice! So, we gave up and installed a remote starter switch between the small terminal on the solenoid and the big red hot terminal on the starter. We tie-wrapped everything and put the push-button housing on the frame in the front wheel-well. This avoided having the wire too close to the exhaust manifold. We started the MH using the remote starter. I planned to take it to a repair facility when we got back to the land of such facilities. Then my buddy said, "Just for fun, try the key again". By this time (5 days later), the concept of fun had left my mind. I'll be darned if it didn't start. Apparently, starting the engine with the remote starter reset some computer and now it was able to recognize that the transmission was in Park, and sent the signal to the solenoid to energize the crank start system. I hope this helps someone else who encounters this problem. Now I have two ways to start the MH for the trip home. That's better than no ways to start it. Thank you all for the collective thinking you provided on this. If I ever run into this problem again, I will probably be able to fix it pretty quickly. If I'm too old to remember, I'll read it here.
__________________
2004 Tiffin Allegro 27.5 ft. P32 18,000 lb GVW. 8.1 liter. Workhorse chassis built May 2002. 21,000 miles. 2012 Jeep Liberty Toad. RVi2 brake unit.
Full.Monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 02:20 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Rook's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Solo Rvers Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: FT for 6 years, NW in the summer, S in winter.
Posts: 1,092
Congratulations on the FIX. The winning ingredient is often "PERSISTENCE". It has saved me many times. Rook
__________________

__________________
When you get a chance to dance, or sit this one out......I hope you DANCE!

98 National Tradewinds 7370, powered by a 3126B 300HP CAT Turbo, Freightliner XC chassis
Rook is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.