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Old 02-22-2014, 01:41 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Dick Noble View Post
I'm shocked (pun) that no one has mentioned that while 50amp has two hot wires it is still only 50amp. It is not additive, it is absolute.
No, the two hot wires are used individually so that each 120 volt leg can each draw 50 amps.....for a combined total of 100 amps or 12,000 watts
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Noble View Post

I'm shocked (pun) that no one has mentioned that while 50 amp has two hot wires it is still only 50 amp. It is not additive, it is absolute.
This discussion is about 50 amp Surge and EMS devices. It's not about the physical properties of 50 amp service. That's why no one has mentioned it.

However, since you have brought the subject up it needs to be clarified from your incorrect post.

30 amp service has three wires, one Hot, one Neutral and one Ground. It provides 120 VAC which is 30 x 120 = 3600 watts of total power that can be used.

50 amp service has four wires, TWO Hot Leg's, one Neutral and one Ground. Each HOT Leg provides 120 VAC. Therefore 50 x 120 + 50 x 120 = 12,000 watts of total power that can be used.

Therefore the coach can actually use up to 100 amps of power if needed.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:41 PM   #17
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Many of those people who say "I've never had a problem from the campground pedestal" really have no idea what has happened with their electric. Many of the things that can happen don't show up immediately, but your A/C and other appliances are taking a hit...and you won't even know it!

We have always used a 50amp, hardwired Progessive EMS and have been fulltime for almost 9 years. In that time we have had low voltage, high voltage, high cycles (more than 60 hertz), no ground, etc., and many of these issues more than once in various campgrounds.

Will NEVER be without the protection...in fact, as soon as we ordered our new coach I ordered a new EMS for it...it arrived before the coach and was put in the day we moved into it...JMHO.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:37 AM   #18
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Thanks everyone! We are going out this morning to purchase one!
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:46 AM   #19
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Here is a great comparison of the most popular ones.
I own the SurgeGuard 34730 and I have been very happy with it -- it has done its job more times than I can remember -- my wife asks me why we are the only people she ever sees at campgrounds with the maintenance guys tearing into the pedestal.

I checked out the comparison in the above quote and I notice there are several things the Progressive Industries EMS PT30C does that mine does not and there is nothing mine does that the PT30C does not.

Looking around I notice that the Progressive Industries unit can be bought for a little less than the SurgeGuard. This is the opposite of what most people are saying, so somewhere something has changed.

My question is; since I already own the SurgeGuard, do the differences between it and the Progressive Industries unit warrant me getting rid of my SurgeGuard and purchasing a PT30C?

Bruce
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:25 AM   #20
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If it were me, I would, I did and here's why.

Long before I was totally educated on pedestal EMS units I first had the TRC Portable 50 amp EMS model 34750 purchased from Camping World. Once I learned the differences between the TRC units and the PI units, I sold my TRC unit on eBay and purchased the Progressive Industries EMS unit HW-50C with two remotes.

I have been completely satisfied with the change.

Here's what I learned about the differences. Electronically they are quite similar for checking the quality of the power. However, where the HW-50C shines over the TRC unit is in reaction time for dropped neutrals and power surges. Also it comes with a LIFETIME warranty on the UNIT not the original owner. It is field serviceable and repairable whereas with the TRC unit you have to send the entire TRC unit in for warranty work only, they are NOT repairable. Oh BTW, if the TRC unit is out of warranty, tough luck, because you can't repair them, you have to purchase another entire unit.

Customer service AND Technical Service at Progressive Industries is paramount over TRC. They will take calls and return calls 24/7. Most of the time it will be Tom Fanelli who is the president returning your call.

I would not use anything else in my RV except for the PI-EMS units.

If you have ANY plans to possibly upgrade to a 50 amp RV in the future, I would invest in the 50 amp version which will work fine on 30 amp service too.

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Old 02-23-2014, 09:37 AM   #21
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I highly recommend the Progressive Industries HW-50C for MANY reasons!

I wouldn't leave home without it!
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:55 PM   #22
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Sorry guys but I completely disagree about the 50 amp. max. If the fixture is properly wired, it will have two 50 amp. breakers. That is not a total of 100 amps. It is 50 amps (max) each. You could get 240 volts from it but that would still be at 50 amps max. (for this, we would have to rewire the plugin - male -part. Each 120 volt hot side will have a breaker at 50 amp. max. Even if it is a "fake" 50 or wired for 120 total from one wire, it would still be at 50 amp. max. Look at it this way - we could wire two 50 amp breakers in-line on one line; this is 50 amp. max. It is not additive. Here is another way to look at it - if we wire a 100 amp breaker in-line with a 50 amp. breaker, we would have 50 amp. max. protection, not 150.
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Old 02-23-2014, 01:08 PM   #23
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Sorry guys but I completely disagree about the 50 amp. max. If the fixture is properly wired, it will have two 50 amp. breakers. That is not a total of 100 amps. It is 50 amps (max) each. You could get 240 volts from it but that would still be at 50 amps max. (for this, we would have to rewire the plugin - male -part. Each 120 volt hot side will have a breaker at 50 amp. max. Even if it is a "fake" 50 or wired for 120 total from one wire, it would still be at 50 amp. max. Look at it this way - we could wire two 50 amp breakers in-line on one line; this is 50 amp. max. It is not additive. Here is another way to look at it - if we wire a 100 amp breaker in-line with a 50 amp. breaker, we would have 50 amp. max. protection, not 150.
We are NOT talking using "one" device that draws 100 amps .... We are talking using many devices, each one is wired to draw from one hot leg, or the other hot leg. Yes there are two 50 amp breakers. That means 50 amps can flow through EACH one before they trip.

http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/50amp_Service.htm
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Old 02-23-2014, 01:17 PM   #24
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We use the Progressive Industries' unit being discussed. Just last Fall pulled into a place that had an open neutral. Ended up boondocking and moving on the next day. Figger that the EMS-PT50C paid for itself that night. It does happen! \ken
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Old 02-23-2014, 01:40 PM   #25
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I guess I did not explain my self very well. Passdad1 is right, there is a total of 50 amps available on EACH leg. This does not add up to a total of 100 amps available anywhere in the coach. I suppose if we ran all draws at once it could add up to 100 amps but not on any single circuit, is that what was being discussed?

The other question I have is - if we adapt a 50 amp to 30, are we not then governed to 30 amp total? If so, how would this affect a 50amp surge protector? Would it provide any protection at all?
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:32 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Noble View Post

I'm shocked (pun) that no one has mentioned that while 50 amp has two hot wires it is still only 50 amp. It is not additive, it is absolute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Noble View Post

I guess I did not explain my self very well. Passdad1 is right, there is a total of 50 amps available on EACH leg. This does not add up to a total of 100 amps available anywhere in the coach. I suppose if we ran all draws at once it could add up to 100 amps but not on any single circuit, is that what was being discussed?

The other question I have is - if we adapt a 50 amp to 30, are we not then governed to 30 amp total? If so, how would this affect a 50amp surge protector? Would it provide any protection at all?

OK, one more attempt at clarifying your previous post.

The pedestal has two 50 amp circuit breakers clamped together. One of those 50 amp CB's supplies 120 VAC to Leg #1. The other 50 amp CB supplies 120 VAC to Leg #2.

The coach has an electrical system which has been split in half such that 50% of the devices, outlets etc. are on one 50 amp CB and the other 50% of the devices and outlets are on the other 50 amp CB.

You cannot overload either of those two 50 amp CB's. If you do, then either the 50 amp CB inside the coach should trip OR the 50 amp CB inside the Shore Power Pedestal should trip.

However, the entire 120 VAC electrical system inside the coach can use up to 12,000 Watts of power.

12,000 120 VAC = 100 AMP's.

Therefore, the entire coach CAN have access to 100 amps of power, just not on one line. Otherwise in on one single LEG, it would be called 240 VAC NOT 120 VAC.

If you adapt DOWN to a 30 amp Pedestal using a 50-30 amp Dog-Bone adapter then you are limited to ONLY 30 amps of power or 120 X 30 = 3600 watts of power. The Progressive Industries EMS unit will still protect your RV from lousy power conditions and surges.

The same is true when a 30 amp RV plugs into a 50 amp Pedestal using the same 50-30 amp Dog-Bone adapter, the coach is still limited to using ONLY 30 amps but their EMS unit will be protecting them from BAD power conditions.

Also in one of your recent posts, you mentioned "Fake 50 amp". If you or anyone comes across a situation like that, I build testers that will test for that condition prior to plugging in your RV to the shore power. Or you could use a DVOM meter to check for the same condition by measuring across Leg #1 and Leg #2 to see if you get 240 VAC. If you don't see 240 VAC on your DVOM then it is a "Fake 50 amp" setup. If you find this situation, the RV Park office should be notified immediately. Now if you do have this condition and try to use the Pedestal you will ONLY have either 50 amp's or 30 amp's available to use in your ENTIRE coach depending on the size of wire they had used.

It pays for RVer's to educate themselves a little on RV Electric so you can recognize problems BEFORE they bite you in the booty.

RV Electric

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:59 PM   #27
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Dr4Film - On the other post about surge protectors, you showed how to build a tester. Thanks for that, I did build one and have used it. I am now parked next to my BIL who had an electrical problem so I used that tester on the pole here and am using the new Progressive Industries Surge Protector.

As to the 50 amp - I think we are saying the same thing.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:57 PM   #28
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We recently purchased our coach and the shore power requires 50amp. This is a lot of power coming into the coach and we are thinking a surge protector for hooking up to shore power might be a good investment. Has anyone experienced power surges at campsites? Thanks, Frank
Back on topic ;-)

Yes, I have experienced a surge and an undervoltage, and several bad pedestals. My PT50-C dropped out when lightning struck a transformer on a pole, and when power dropped below 103, and it would not allow power several times due to open ground.

The surge cost my neighbor a deductible and 5 weeks of fighting with insurance.
The low voltage fried 2 A/C units in camp.
The open grounds were repaired by camp maintenance folks.
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