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Old 11-16-2015, 04:21 AM   #1
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Tesla Battery Technology - Just a matter of time for RVs

This will eventually spill over to RVs. Very excited about the potential for this for our rigs.

https://www.minds.com/blog/view/4409...etely-off-grid
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Old 11-16-2015, 08:46 AM   #2
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"The wall" is a significant part of the Tesla business model. It is evolving fairly quickly and unlike their car industry there is less restriction on space and weight. We have similar battery technology in our electric vehicle but of course considerably bigger. We have definitely bought our last internal combustion engine car. Hard to go back to belts, hoses, oil changes, gas stations, doggy acceleration, noise etc.

I would think with prices in those categories you will see higher end coach manufacturers integrating this technology for house batteries within a year or two. 2, 3 or 4 KW systems would be totally feasible.

It should be an interesting decade.
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Old 11-16-2015, 11:11 AM   #3
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RVs are a great example of Point of Sale (POS) structuring for basic utilities. POS allows consumers to decide some things for themselves and how much of the public side they need/want.

As an example, water supplied certainly must need basic safety standards but is need to be nearly bottled quality? Providing basic, safe water supplies to users could be done cheaper without over processing. Users could then use there own systems to bring the water to the absolute quality they want by filters and RO water they use daily while using untreated water for other purposes.

As electricity goes, the same applies. Power companies provide clean power along with advanced metering capabilities to charge based on use both in and out of peak periods. Users then have the choice to install solar & wind systems along with the ability to store up this power. They can store this power to run the house, charge cars and then return power to the grid when their storage capacity is exceeded.

Certainly some areas of the country will gain more benefits of solar generation. That is a choice people can make as they see fit but it isn't a lost cause in most of the US. Obviously long term storage of power in extreme northern areas starting with the northern US states into Canada and Alaska will be more challenging during winter months.

Some existing RVs will be challenged to covert to Lithium Ion (Primarily LFP for now) technology simply because of battery location. As an example, my coach batteries are located next to the engine compartment and the temps get way too high for the health of them. This article by Technomadia (RVers with a major thirst for technology improvements) is a nice follow up after a few years of working they LFP. LFPs could be a major component for all-electric RVs. LFPs can provide the same USEABLE Amp Hours of power as lead acid batteries in a smaller space and with less weight.

I think the problem will be that some see our economy is too wrapped up in fossil fuels. The oil companies have a very firm hold on our government and could be obstructionists. OTOH and IMHO, they could see this as an opportunity to ride a paradigm shift and make huge profits. If they don't they face the challenges of companies like Motorola that didn't jump into the digital cell phone craze and let companies like Ericsson pass them in that area like they were chained to a tree.

Now, I'm not a "tree hugger" but I do have an opinion that moving away from fossil fuels as much as we can is good for us in the long run both from a environmental stand point and national security perspective.

Of course, there are issues that I would like to hear more about. Even if these batteries can meet their performance promises, they are not infinite in life span. How will they be disposed of or recycled?
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Old 11-16-2015, 03:35 PM   #4
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Here is some interesting reading on the subject.

Gasoline vs Electric—Who Wins on Lifetime Global Warming Emissions? We Found Out - The Equation

I kinda keep track of developments in this industry as we are EV users. One of the interesting industries that will slowly evolve out of the electric vehicle industry is the recycling of the batteries. Although the batteries deteriorate at about 1 to 3 percent a year the reality is the batteries will still be very good storage devices in 15 to 20 years, after the car has worn out. So what do you do with a 24 KW battery that has dropped to 18 or 20 KW. Right now various industries are looking at everything to converting them to Fork Lift batteries to large UPS power supplies for offices to off grid cottage sources etc. eg, you take your re-purposed battery that has been integrated into a 120 volt supply, charge it up at home, take it out to the cottage for the weekend and bring it back for re-charge. At least one company is looking at uses 40 years out. No one really knows what the demand or supply will be but some of the players are starting to take shape. Should be interesting to see the secondary industries develop.
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Old 11-17-2015, 02:45 PM   #5
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The sad fact is, what North America does to reduce global warming is insignificant when compared to China and Russia total output. Then there are the facts pointing to earths natural cycle of global waming that enter into the equation.
Tesla has certainly advanced battery technology. Now a new player has risen to further advance battery technology. Liquid metal batteries:
TR10: Liquid Battery - MIT Technology Review

As to electric motorhomes, a nearby city has operated a fleet of hybrid electric transit bus's for over 10 years. They were built by Gillig.
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Old 11-17-2015, 02:50 PM   #6
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The sad fact is, what North America does to reduce global warming is insignificant when compared to China and Russia total output. Then there are the facts pointing to earths natural cycle of global waming that enter into the equation.
Tesla has certainly advanced battery technology. Now a new player has risen to further advance battery technology. Liquid metal batteries:
TR10: Liquid Battery - MIT Technology Review
Good afternoon. I'm not sure I follow. Although china outputs more pollution than the US or Canada because of their size ( they have more than three times the population ) they are no where near as bad as polluters as Americans or Canadians. Although the onus is on everybody to improve the weight falls more on the west, in my opinion. China is also making huge strides in reducing pollution in general and their rate of improvement is actually better than most western nations.
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Old 11-17-2015, 03:08 PM   #7
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I'm pretty sure the GW folks had a meeting and they decided to go with "Climate Change". This way they won't have to change it every 30-40 years.

" If we were to charge a fee (we can never call it a tax) on fossil fuel, wind power would be way cheaper. "

Bill Nye


Oh yeah, I like batteries and fossil fuel.
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Old 11-17-2015, 03:21 PM   #8
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GDS Technologies Announcing our Backup Portable Renewable Energy Generator

Who needs batteries?
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Old 11-17-2015, 03:49 PM   #9
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SkyBoss

The Technomadia folks had LFP battery set in enclosed box that contained inverter and were running system off inverter. Inverter can produce a lot of heat. They were parked on tarmac in Phoenix (or Tucson) in summer and the temperatures were probably far above that required for degradation.

We have around 9 kW-hrs of LFP (250# or so) in front compartment which can open to three sides. We have a remote thermometer ($15 at Walmart or some place similar) to monitor. It never got above 90 F this summer. The front compartment is under the front (king pin) protruberance on 5th wheel and is thus in the shade. Had planned to put in a 12 V receptacle for a fan but it never got to hot. Front compartment also has PSWI inverter (heat), MPPT controller, battery chargers etc.

Radar - those used LPo batteries that you describe should prove most useful.

Reed and Elaine
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:36 PM   #10
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If you want to look at something that is available now for stored power or batteries the technology is available for the RV industry. 120Ah lithium iron phosphate. No more filling batteries with water. Batteries are dry. Weigh 1/4 the weight of your typical batteries. Comes standard with internal voltage regulator and will not over charge. In most cases where your coach is equipped with 4 house batteries you can provide the same power with only 2 lithium iron phosphate batteries and get the same run time. The will also fit in the same foot print as all lead based batteries. A lead based battery on average can go from full charge to full discharge 60 times in the batteries expected lifetime. The lithium iron phosphate technology will go from full charge to full discharge 600 times in an expected lifetime. Also, a 10 year non prorated warranty. I not only sell these but use them on my current coach with no issue.
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Old 11-18-2015, 06:41 PM   #11
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If you want to look at something that is available now for stored power or batteries the technology is available for the RV industry. 120Ah lithium iron phosphate. No more filling batteries with water. Batteries are dry. Weigh 1/4 the weight of your typical batteries. Comes standard with internal voltage regulator and will not over charge. In most cases where your coach is equipped with 4 house batteries you can provide the same power with only 2 lithium iron phosphate batteries and get the same run time. The will also fit in the same foot print as all lead based batteries. A lead based battery on average can go from full charge to full discharge 60 times in the batteries expected lifetime. The lithium iron phosphate technology will go from full charge to full discharge 600 times in an expected lifetime. Also, a 10 year non prorated warranty. I not only sell these but use them on my current coach with no issue.
Interesting. Feel free to blast a message off to me with info. Probably out of my budget but I would be interested in pricing. We are doing a battery change in 2016.

J and A
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Old 11-18-2015, 06:55 PM   #12
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:51 AM   #13
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I have sent a bunch of PM's on the above mentioned Lithium Iron Phosphate battery (LIP) technology. This post is probably in the wrong spot too? Nonetheless, maybe to save me from sending a bunch of PM's I will post some info. The LIP technology is new. It was invented and perfected by a former Tesla engineer. I currently provide LIP batteries to the oil and gas industry, US government/military vehicles, Pro Bass fisherman, numerous individuals in the power sports industry and my coach. The main reason the technology is so attractive is the autonomy is more than double any lead or gel battery. Basically, under any load the LIP battery will provide usable power 2+ times longer than any current lead or gel option without receiving a charge. LIP batteries are dry. No more checking or filling batteries. The battery weighs 20lbs. Easy to remove and store for the winter. LIP batteries have the same footprint as your current batteries. I currently run 2 LIP batteries to start my diesel coach. I also replaced the 4 lead based batteries with 2 LIP batteries on the house side. No issues so far. Based on my experience the 2 LIP batteries hold and maintain a higher charge even under full load than my previous 4 lead based set up. I have tested LIP batteries extensively. The golf cart test seems to be the easiest example I can explain. I took a new electric golf cart with 6 fully charged lead based batteries and was able to get the equivalent of 2-1/2 rounds of golf at my local golf course before full discharge. I then switched the 6 lead based batteries to 4 LIP batteries and was able to get the equivalent of 6 rounds of golf before full discharge. More than 2 times usable run time with less batteries. As long a reliable charging source is provided these are truely maintenance free. The gorilla in the closet is the price. A 10 year non prorated warranty comes with a price tag. If you are interested in a price PM me. I will not post the price on this thread. If this post is in the wrong place or needs to be removed feel free to do what needs to be done as I do not want to break the rules of the forum. I just wanted to inform others what is available with respect to the title of the post.
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Old 11-19-2015, 08:34 PM   #14
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I'd rather burn diesel than coal to power my RV.
;-)
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