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Old 03-31-2010, 09:57 AM   #43
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I ended up with a CDL when I wanted a non-CDL because I was using a driving school's truck to take the test. Since it was registered as a commercial vehicle, the examiner said I had to fulfill the requirements for a CDL to drive it. Oh well.

Thanks for the info on the downgrade, Wayne. I'll do that next time we pass through Livingston.

joe
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:18 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
I ended up with a CDL when I wanted a non-CDL because I was using a driving school's truck to take the test. Since it was registered as a commercial vehicle, the examiner said I had to fulfill the requirements for a CDL to drive it. Oh well.

Thanks for the info on the downgrade, Wayne. I'll do that next time we pass through Livingston.

joe
One of the more interesting questions is:
If you are driving an RV with a CDL, do you have to conform to the commerical requirements? Specifically, this relates to keeping a log book and stopping at weigh stations. Yes, I understand that RVs are generally exempt from weigh stations but also read about a situation where an RVer had put commercial graphics on the sides of his vehicle and was cited (with a hefty fine) for not following commercial rules. Taking it one step further, RV delivery has always puzzled me in this regard. I'm assuming that most RV delivery drivers have a CDL and perhaps they do keep log books to avoid issues. Taken to a ridiculous extreme, one could make the case that Cruise America and El Monte, because they are covered with commercial graphics, would also be viewed as commercial vehicles. I realize that if you accept that line of thinking, then U-Haul, Penske and the other rental trucks would also be covered and are not, to the best of my understanding.

I'm not trying to make the situation more difficult than necessary. I'm simply trying to understand. The Texas Statutes provide little guidance. BTW, the RV with the commercial graphics was ticketed in Texas.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:30 AM   #45
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One of the more interesting questions is:
If you are driving an RV with a CDL, do you have to conform to the commerical requirements? Specifically, this relates to keeping a log book and stopping at weigh stations. Yes, I understand that RVs are generally exempt from weigh stations but also read about a situation where an RVer had put commercial graphics on the sides of his vehicle and was cited (with a hefty fine) for not following commercial rules. Taking it one step further, RV delivery has always puzzled me in this regard. I'm assuming that most RV delivery drivers have a CDL and perhaps they do keep log books to avoid issues. Taken to a ridiculous extreme, one could make the case that Cruise America and El Monte, because they are covered with commercial graphics, would also be viewed as commercial vehicles. I realize that if you accept that line of thinking, then U-Haul, Penske and the other rental trucks would also be covered and are not, to the best of my understanding.

I'm not trying to make the situation more difficult than necessary. I'm simply trying to understand. The Texas Statutes provide little guidance. BTW, the RV with the commercial graphics was ticketed in Texas.
No you do not. You're not driving for hire, and you're not driving a commercial vehicle, so you don't need to follow the procedures for when you are.

RV delivery drivers are driving for hire, so they need to follow some of those procedures.

Not sure about the "graphics" case, but it could be that the graphics advertised his own business, and he was driving the RV on business (to or from business events), which could very well make it subject to commercial rules. A rental is different - the driver is not conducting the business that's advertised.

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Old 03-31-2010, 10:31 AM   #46
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I would think that an RV, like any other vehicle, could be commercial or non-commercial. If someone took an RV and used it for commercial purposes (complete with logos, etc.), then it's reasonable to me that the Section 522 CDL exemption covering "personal use" of the RV would disappear and DOT and CDL requirements would govern.

This has cropped up with racers the last few years as more and more states classify racing as a commercial enterprise as prize money is awarded. Therefore, many "sportsman" racers who have their trailers emblazoned with sponsor logos as well as their own are being ticketed in some states if they don't comply with DOT and CDL requirements.

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Old 03-31-2010, 01:20 PM   #47
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No you do not. You're not driving for hire, and you're not driving a commercial vehicle, so you don't need to follow the procedures for when you are.

RV delivery drivers are driving for hire, so they need to follow some of those procedures.

Not sure about the "graphics" case, but it could be that the graphics advertised his own business, and he was driving the RV on business (to or from business events), which could very well make it subject to commercial rules. A rental is different - the driver is not conducting the business that's advertised.

joe
I understand, Joe. Let's take this to the next level, especially based on Rusty's post about the RV being potentially commercial or non-commercial. If the RV has graphics, how would someone know about its use without an LEO stopping it to find out? Cruise America pays drivers to ferry their units around, particularly back to Arizona for winter refurb. Ok, Ok, I know that I splitting hairs.

My guess is that some (many?) of the RV delivery drivers don't follow the CDL rules. They may have CDL licenses but their chances of getting stopped because of a compliance issue are about zero. How would an LEO know, looking at an RV that it did or did not fall under the commercial delivery category. In Rusty's example of the racers, they are not commercial but do have sponsor logos on their trailers. Does that automatically make them commercial? Where is the Statute that covers that? If I'm an amateur racer and simply have people supporting me, how does that make me commercial? (Editorial comment: we have so few moving violations on the roads that are LEOs have enough time to enforce this kind of stuff?)
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:25 PM   #48
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In Rusty's example of the racers, they are not commercial but do have sponsor logos on their trailers. Does that automatically make them commercial?
No, what makes them commercial in the eyes of some states' LEOs is that they're competing for prize money - their activity potentially results in monetary gain. The graphics just point out those that are more serious about it than the unsponsored pure hobbyist towing the basic white Haulmark enclosed gooseneck trailer - I haven't heard complaints on the Dodge/Cummins truck forums about those guys getting stopped, but I guess it's possible a few of them have.

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Old 03-31-2010, 01:57 PM   #49
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This thread has passed from a subject of interest to at least some RVers to rampant speculation about what commercial drivers do or don't do. Not sure why we're going there, to be honest.

As for ferry drivers following the rules or not, you can make any guess you want. I'm going to guess that most DO follow the applicable rules. Not because a LEO might stop them, but because they're professional drivers and that's what pros do. And the greater risk is not from an LEO stop. It's from loosing their job if they don't. And if they should have an accident or other insurance event, what do you think's going to happen when the insurance company finds out they're not following proper procedure?

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Old 03-31-2010, 02:05 PM   #50
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This thread has passed from a subject of interest to at least some RVers to rampant speculation about what commercial drivers do or don't do. Not sure why we're going there, to be honest.
You're probably right, but bear in mind we've long since answered the OP's question about what the Texas driver license requirements are for RVs.

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Old 03-31-2010, 02:12 PM   #51
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You're probably right, but bear in mind we've long since answered the OP's question about what the Texas driver license requirements are for RVs.

Rusty
True. He just doesn't like the answer.

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Old 03-31-2010, 04:33 PM   #52
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This thread has passed from a subject of interest to at least some RVers to rampant speculation about what commercial drivers do or don't do. Not sure why we're going there, to be honest.

As for ferry drivers following the rules or not, you can make any guess you want. I'm going to guess that most DO follow the applicable rules. Not because a LEO might stop them, but because they're professional drivers and that's what pros do. And the greater risk is not from an LEO stop. It's from loosing their job if they don't. And if they should have an accident or other insurance event, what do you think's going to happen when the insurance company finds out they're not following proper procedure?

joe
Perhaps the leap from the original is not as far as you believe. The point that I've been trying to demonstrate in the recent posts is that the Texas Statutes covering RVs and licenses are not well defined. I felt that specific examples where situations weren't straightforward was in order. For example, as an RV driver, I have the potential to be stopped by an LEO who believes that he or she has probable cause to believe that I'm operating my RV for other than personal reasons. The exemption for non-CDL Class A and B is only for those personal reasons.

I feel strongly that that potential has driven this whole process to look more like a CDL and less like and RV oriented license. You read the CDL manual, you take a written test with CDL questions. The only thing that you don't do is to take a road test on a CDL vehicle - except that some RVers have had to do exactly that and ended up having the conform to all of the CDL.. In my mind, it if looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....... And it makes no sense to me that it IS a duck.

Somehow, the fall back on all the arguments is always insurance. The insurance company is going to do bad things if..... I'm still waiting the see the first real life example of that,. But more important - is the enforcement of our RV related Statutues really left to the insurance company? If it is, I have a good idea as to why - because no one else is sure what to enforce. I suspect that Texas LEOs don't enforce much besides the standard speeding, running red lights on RV because of the problems with interpretation. I'm simply trying to point out the places where conditions are subject to that interpretation. Commercial versus non-Commerical use of an RV is one of those situations, I believe.

Lastly, about where this thread is going or has gone, let me say this. On a separate CHL thread, where I made the mistake of mentioning the non-CDL situation, I almost lost that thread to others who wanted to debate the RV related licenses. I opened this thread and I've been trying to poke at the subject to see if I can draw out some of those same comments here. It obviously hasn't worked.

So I'll move on now. I consider this whole matter to be silly because, like the RV inspection requirements, it does little to solve any real problem. It is a half baked solution, looking for a problem to solve and all it has attracted are a bunch of confused bureaucrats who get almost giddy about pushing the general populance around.
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:06 PM   #53
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In other words, you're trolling on the subject because you have nothing better to do. Fine. I'm unsubscribing from this thread.

joe
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:51 PM   #54
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Well. I guess that's that.

I wish everyone a blessed Easter.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:54 PM   #55
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On the other hand......
A worthwhile discussion, most of us are conscientious about preparing, maintaining and operating our vehicles, we want our safety equipment to be correct and effective, and want to be safe, courteous, and LEGAL operators.-- And we want to enjoy our lifestyle...
If the laws are confusing, another point of view in a reply may point out different interpretations of the law or highlight a requirement. There are responses in this thread that some now recognize a different class license is required.

I also have not seen any evidence of Insurance companies or the greedy rogue lawyers clamoring to enforce this license requirement, towing laws, or vehicle inspection requirements.
It is hard to comply with the law when the DMV/DPS and LEO's are not sure what is required.

Regardless of the rude trolling comment, with 55 replies there obviously was interest in the subject..
Thanks...
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:02 PM   #56
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Not so fast.

I doubt if anyone that is following the law has to worry about what type class license they have. Or if you have an accident, it may become a problem. If you get pulled over for a traffic violation, and are driving a very large vehicle, an officer may take a harder look at what type of license you have. I really do not believe that they sit on the side of the highway with a radar gun and say, "I wonder what class license he has. I think I'll pull him over and check." It is just not going to happen. And it doesn't matter what type of graphics you have on the side. Don't most RV's come with manufacturer's graphics? Are you driving commercially for them. It could become a very deep subject.

Okay! I'm done.
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