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Old 10-26-2015, 08:07 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahicks View Post
Luck, and you're no further north than you are would be my guess....

(20 years at an Mi. dealer... with a TON of experience replacing frozen toilet water valves)

Guess I'm lucky then. 15 years of air only, leaving all faucets and valves open and never a problem. Blow air until no moisture comes out of faucet, toilet, etc. then just leave everything wide open. Any trace moisture isn't going to cause a problem, probably evaporates over several moths. Do same thing with garden hose left outside, never a problem there either.
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Old 10-26-2015, 09:11 AM   #44
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You blow out your water pump as well?

At a dealer level, with many jobs lined up waiting to be done, I can work much more efficiently pumping anti freeze without further concern. Perhaps doing several simple systems an hour. It's simple, cheap, quick, and very unlikely to result in any type of failure.

And yes, I realize more complex systems are going to slow things down considerably - but that's not going to make any difference which process you favor.

Please, not here to argue the point. I get the fact blowing a system out is a popular process. My point is that it is not without risk, and requires a lot of dinking around to be done right. For example, you aren't going to get reliable results just blowing that system out once or twice. That fact alone is lost on many considering the process. You need to pressurize and release several times (or as many times as required) prior to getting air only out of the fixtures - especially if you aren't exceeding suggested pressure on the system by a factor of 2 or 3.... -Al
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Old 10-26-2015, 09:54 AM   #45
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How much air pressure is safe? I've always used the RV Antifreeze and pumped it through the systems as described by everyone. The heat is set to 45 degrees. Last year I had the toilet sprayer valve crack. This could have been from age (9 years) but we did have a couple of 0 nights.
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Old 10-26-2015, 10:20 AM   #46
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40-45psi is considered "safe". That's why water pressure regulators are supposed to limit pressures to that amount. Personally I think you're safe/OK to 60psi or so.

If that spray head was full of anti freeze, it should not have cracked from cold temps. I will say though, that's one of the more popular things sold in the spring. Pretty easy to miss during the winterizing process.
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:06 PM   #47
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I really do not care if people use air or antifreeze. However, If what you say is true, how do you explain the fact that we used only air at our dealership for fifteen years with no frozen lines.
And I do not care if people use air or antifreeze either.

Your at a dealer ship, my guess your set up to do this cheap & easy. I'm from CT, maybe climate might play a part?....

I'm just stating a fact why "I" use antifreeze

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Old 10-27-2015, 08:42 AM   #48
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Luck, and you're no further north than you are would be my guess....

(20 years at an Mi. dealer... with a TON of experience replacing frozen toilet water valves)
Oh come on! With the customers coaches we probably did 3,000 coaches. We got lucky 3,000 times? We also repaired coaches every year from customers who did it incorrectly. We do get cold in Georgia. Cold enough for a coach to freeze if it is not prepared correctly. I am not trying to convert someone to using air to winterize. I just get tired of some people saying air is not safe if done correctly. Another poster said we were cheap. Do the math 3,000 coaches at 3 gallons each averaged cost of anti freeze $2.00. That is a $18,000 savings. I think we were smart not cheap.
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Old 10-27-2015, 02:41 PM   #49
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We have our coach winterized by Jeff's RV Repair. $93 plus tax. That is money well spent for the peace of mind that it's done correctly. He's a small, one-man operation. He stands behind and takes a lot of pride in his work. He's done several jobs for us and we're very happy with his work and prices.
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Old 10-27-2015, 06:54 PM   #50
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Another poster said we were cheap
If your referring to my earlier post...

You are taking what I'm said out of context! what I am saying is your dealership or business is "cost effective because of volume" I was using short cut words, NOT calling your dealership cheap.

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Old 10-27-2015, 07:12 PM   #51
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Oh come on! With the customers coaches we probably did 3,000 coaches. We got lucky 3,000 times? We also repaired coaches every year from customers who did it incorrectly. We do get cold in Georgia. Cold enough for a coach to freeze if it is not prepared correctly. I am not trying to convert someone to using air to winterize. I just get tired of some people saying air is not safe if done correctly. Another poster said we were cheap. Do the math 3,000 coaches at 3 gallons each averaged cost of anti freeze $2.00. That is a $18,000 savings. I think we were smart not cheap.
When I was down south we used air all the time with pretty much zero issues. However try that up hear and you will lose that 18000 in savings in a year or 2. 2 years ago one of our customers froze his Entegra you should see the bill for replacing a Aqua Hot that is froze internally. You guys close the roads if you get a few snow flakes we don't even slow down under 70mph until we get a foot or so. You guys down south call anything below 32 deg cold we don't consider it cold til the snow squeaks which is around 20 below.
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Old 10-27-2015, 07:25 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by ahicks View Post
At a dealer level, with many jobs lined up waiting to be done, I can work much more efficiently pumping anti freeze without further concern. Perhaps doing several simple systems an hour. It's simple, cheap, quick, and very unlikely to result in any type of failure.

And yes, I realize more complex systems are going to slow things down considerably - but that's not going to make any difference which process you favor.

Please, not here to argue the point. I get the fact blowing a system out is a popular process. My point is that it is not without risk, and requires a lot of dinking around to be done right. For example, you aren't going to get reliable results just blowing that system out once or twice. That fact alone is lost on many considering the process. You need to pressurize and release several times (or as many times as required) prior to getting air only out of the fixtures - especially if you aren't exceeding suggested pressure on the system by a factor of 2 or 3.... -Al
agreed, I'm in the trades and I've worked with hydronics my whole career... seen to many frozen pipes.

Mike
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