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04-23-2012, 10:35 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
National RV Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Spring Hill, Florida
Posts: 854
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The Science of Tire Blow Outs?
I'm interested in hearing others thoughts on this. Here's a little background on what's got me thinking.
A good friend and I were having a conversation tonight about tires reaching a certain age and their propensity to fail when they get too old, sometimes regardless of their exterior appearance or condition. This friend and I both spent several years in the Army together, part of that time, driving large transport trucks at Fort Bragg, NC. We both experienced our share of changing tires. One of the things we talked about was the smell of the air coming out of a tire that had been mounted for a long time and was ready to be replaced. For those of you that haven't smelled it, it doesn't smell bad, but it doesn't smell like air either. It smells more like a gas.
We all know that tires are made from rubber, and I think most know also, that tire rubber has petroleum products in its compound. Tires get pretty hot when rolling heavilly loaded and we couldn't help but wonder if the combination of heat, heavy loads and the fact that normal air pumped into a tire can expand a great deal, had something to do with premature tire failure and blow outs.
Normal air pumped into a tire has moisture in it. Moisture when broken down to it's basic element is liquid. Liquid expands when it's heated. Perhaps that's the reason why a tires pressure cold is not the same and when it's hot. Ever feel a tire after it's been rolling for some time under a load? Pretty warm on the outside. I can imagine the inside temperature is even greater. If that tires air has actually become a gas of sorts, because of it's exposure to a heated environment containing a petroleum product, common sense to me says it might blow up under certain circumstances. Not flaming explosion kind of blow up, but expansion to the point that it blows up.
Nitrogen inflated tires maintain an even pressure reading whether they're hot or cold. Nitrogen contains no liquid. Makes sense to me. I'm not a chemist or a scientist, just a common sense kind of guy.
I'm thinking of making the investment in getting my tires inflated with nitrogen for reasons that I've just spoke of. At least the steer tires anyhow. I know it's gained popularity in car tires over recent years.
What might be some of your opinions on this? Perhaps there's a forum member that has a background in science or chemistry that could explain whether my thoughts are valid. Thanks!
__________________
Harley Ultra Classic (Geezer Glide) Rider, Retired US Army Paratrooper, fisherman, shooter. Proud to have served, proud of those that still do, or have done so with pride.
2005 National Dolphin 34'
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04-23-2012, 11:06 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Clovis, CA, USA
Posts: 13,138
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My opinion? Snake oil.
Normal air is 78% nitrogen.
Worked fine just as it is for me for the past 50 years.
__________________
2004 Monaco La Palma 36DBD, W22, 8.1, 7.1 MPG
2000 LEXUS RX300 FWD 22MPG 4020 LBS
Criticism is easier than Craftsmanship
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04-23-2012, 11:09 PM
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#3
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RV Mutant #14
Winnebago Owners Club Texas Boomers Club Freightliner Owners Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,209
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X2.
__________________
Wayne MSGT USMC (Ret) & Earlene (CinCHouse) RVM14 (ARS: KE5QG)
Lexi - Goldendoodle
2015 Winnebago Tour 42QD - 2020 Lincoln Nautilus Reserve
It is what it is, and then it is what you make of it.
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04-23-2012, 11:12 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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X3.
The only "saving grace" is that it's moisture free. And compressed air might not be unless there's an air dryer in the line.
Moisture can attack the metal belts in a tire and cause them to rust, which breaks the bond between the metal and rubber and can easily lead to a blowout. And then the tire manufacturer gets blamed for a faulty tire.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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04-24-2012, 05:47 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,796
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There has been a lot of Forum conversation regarding Nitrogen. Use "Search" to read. Other than race cars, or aircraft, there isn't any convincing reason to use Nitrogen - unless you are a tire dealer looking for additional profit.
__________________
George Schweikle Lexington, KY
2005 Safari (Monaco)Trek 28RB2, Workhorse W20, 8.1, Allison 1000 5 spd, UltraPower engine & tranny, Track bars & sway bars, KONI FSD, FMCA 190830, Safari Int'l. chapter. 1999 Safari Trek 2830, 1995 Safari Trek 2430, 1983 Winnebago Chieftain, 1976 Midas Mini
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04-24-2012, 06:27 AM
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#6
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: West Palm Beach, FL. USA
Posts: 27,676
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x4.
Quote:
Nitrogen inflated tires maintain an even pressure reading whether they're hot or cold. Nitrogen contains no liquid. Makes sense to me. I'm not a chemist or a scientist, just a common sense kind of guy.
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Not so. Nitrogen expends with heat just like any other gas - it's one of the most basic laws of physics (The Universal Gas Law, aka Charles Law).
__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition and several other RVs
Home is West Palm Beach, FL
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04-24-2012, 07:26 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spring Hill, Florida
Posts: 1,380
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Not sure. The most compelling reason for me to not use nitrogen is availability on the road. After two blowouts on the MH and losing 4 toad tires I am always searching for a better way. The article below explains advantages and disadvantages.
Nitrogen vs Air In Tires - Why Nitrogen in Tires - Popular Mechanics
__________________
98 Endeavor DP, ISB275
RX300, Falcon II hitch, BB Vantage Select
VMSpc, 2002 Grey Ford Powerstroke
TST 507 w/ 10 Sensors
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04-24-2012, 07:39 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northwestern Montana
Posts: 3,513
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Nitrogen over air.........Ummmm those famous words of P.T. Barnum come to mind.
__________________
Dieselclacker
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04-24-2012, 08:02 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,569
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The main reason Nascar mandates nitrogen to be used in the pits, many years ago teams were pegging the compressors to pump more pressure to make the guns run faster = faster tire changes. Accidents ensued from compressor failures and tank explositions took place. Nitrogen was in place to regulate safety. Some body figured it would "sell" and viola, people are paying. I drove Tractor and trailers and owned them for years, we ran 80,000# from Salinas, Ca. to NY through the deserts at high speeds and high temps without failure and without nitrogen. I put 150,000 miles a year on tires with no TPMS, If it makes you feel better to buy this, by all means do so. Not me.
__________________
American Tradition 42R-Cadillac SRX Blue Ox Koni 5050XL MCD Scangauge D Samsung rf197
Fulltime since 2012
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04-24-2012, 08:30 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,469
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I've always thought nitrogen was a modern day snake oil but would like to see someone with technical expertise answer your questions. I'm always willing to learn something new.
__________________
US Navy Vet, Liberty Tree Member of Oath Keepers, NRA & VFW Life Member, Alaska EMT.
2009 Safari Cheetah 40 SKQ
2009 Winnebago Chalet 231CR
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04-24-2012, 08:44 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Phx, Arid~zona
Posts: 11,106
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I've alway heard that the nitrogen molecules were larger and didn't bleed through the sidewalls as easily.
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04-24-2012, 08:46 AM
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#12
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RV Mutant #14
Winnebago Owners Club Texas Boomers Club Freightliner Owners Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,209
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Pro's and cons for each.
My biggest fear is where do I get nitrogen if some id-10-t kid walks by and undoes the valve stem?
__________________
Wayne MSGT USMC (Ret) & Earlene (CinCHouse) RVM14 (ARS: KE5QG)
Lexi - Goldendoodle
2015 Winnebago Tour 42QD - 2020 Lincoln Nautilus Reserve
It is what it is, and then it is what you make of it.
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04-24-2012, 09:11 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Mcdonough, Ga.
Posts: 5,931
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I installed a moister filter in my air line from my air compressor to take care of the water problem.
__________________
1998 Pace Arrow 35 ft. F53 Ford V10 2014 Honda CRV toad
32 years mechanic at Delta Air Lines 15 year motorhome service manager. 3 popups....2 travel trailers....5 motorhomes....loved them all.
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04-24-2012, 09:32 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,193
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Using nitrogen in tires seems to be one of those things that believers of both sides can find a "scientific" study to support their side of the question, and most are pretty passionate in their advocacy. Consumer Reports did a study a while back and their report was the most commented upon in their history - and some of the discussions got quite heated. If you do a Google search for "nitrogen in tires" you can get enough reading to occupy yourself for days. Since our motorhome tires seem to heat up within normal limits while traveling, and we lose only about 4 psi per year (from 105) I will stick with the cheap ordinary air.
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