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Old 11-04-2014, 10:39 AM   #15
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My spouse is very specific with the tech when the tires are put back on since they should be torqued gradually. We usually have to provide our hand held torque wrench and spouse watches them when he can.
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:58 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Steve Hoover View Post
Thanks for your reply. All the studs were broken off completely on the front tire and 4 studs on the rear tire were broken off. In addition, two studs on the right side of the RV were stripped (cross threaded?). The tire shop discovered this when they were checking all tires. I will take your advice and have all studs replaced. Thanks again.
IMO if the studs are broken the they were over tightened when installed. Checking the torque on them after that is usesless as they will not tighten and further unless you make the over torque situation worse.

The only way that checking the torque is effective is if the nuts are loose. If they are overtight checking the torque will indicate everything is fine.

Go after CW for damages because of incorrect installation of the wheels.
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Old 11-04-2014, 11:07 AM   #17
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IMO if the studs are broken the they were over tightened when installed. Checking the torque on them after that is usesless as they will not tighten and further unless you make the over torque situation worse.

The only way that checking the torque is effective is if the nuts are loose. If they are overtight checking the torque will indicate everything is fine.

Go after CW for damages because of incorrect installation of the wheels.
Not necessarily true. As the nuts work loose and the wheel starts wobbling on the studs all sorts of forces are present. If 4 loosen, then all the pressure goes to the tight one, breaking it, then the next tightest, etc.
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Old 11-04-2014, 11:35 AM   #18
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Not necessarily true. As the nuts work loose and the wheel starts wobbling on the studs all sorts of forces are present. If 4 loosen, then all the pressure goes to the tight one, breaking it, then the next tightest, etc.

True. BTDT.
OP must save all studs to discover the cause and maybe make a claim. Maybe not a CW bashing moment.
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Old 11-04-2014, 05:16 PM   #19
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I've changed many a tire and have never torqued a lug nut with the tire out of contact of the ground. Yes, when initially mounting the wheel on the hub the tire is off the ground, but after a slight tightening to get each conical shaped nut centered in the bowl shaped opening in the wheel. Once centered, you lower the axle to put full weight on the tire so the wheel doesn't turn while torquing to spec.


I fully agree with your procedure in that you have the wheel unloaded when you tighten the nuts enough to "get each conical shaped nut centered in the bowl shaped opening in the wheel." "Once centered, you lower the axle to put full weight on the tire so the wheel doesn't turn while torquing to spec." (I do the same but put just enough weight on the wheel to stop it from turning.) The problem occurs when the nuts have loosened a little and the wheel is no longer "centered in the bowl shaped opening". Then the wheel cone is resting on a much smaller portion of the nut taper. (Same amount of weight but much smaller foot print = more p/si = more friction.) The wheel is not clamped tightly against the hub resulting in less of the vehicle weight being distributed over the hub and more of it loading the studs and nuts. This is what causes the large increase in friction and gives a false torque reading. Using a torque wrench set for the correct torque spec. will not give you any indication that the torque has increased if it is one that clicks when it reaches the set torque. You must use an old fashioned wrench with the needle bar on the torque scale. Then you may see that the torque has increased over spec.
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Old 11-04-2014, 05:23 PM   #20
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The only way the OP would have a case is if he checked the torque with the mechanic who did the work before he went out on the road and found a problem. Then of coarse it would have been rectified before going on the road, so he may not have had the problem if they were over torqued. You should of coarse still check your torques after 15 - 20 miles and then daily or something similar to that.
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Old 11-04-2014, 05:33 PM   #21
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Get a torque wrench and check the rest against the spec.
And here lies the biggest trap of all - the apparently correct torque on overtightened nuts.

Once the nuts have been rattled up, it is almost useless using a manual torque wrench to confirm proper torque simply because unless the nut actually turns at least slightly before the "click", the nuts must have been overtorqued, and the only way to determine the overtorque is to keep setting the torque wrench higher and higher until the nut DOES turn a fraction before the click. To do it properly after a rattle gun has been used, you need to loosen the nuts manually and then use the torque wrench.

Of course it goes without saying that a rattle gun should only be used to undo the nuts and never to tighten them no matter how sincerely the tyre man assures you their gun is calibrated. In this respect most tyre shops do not know the correct procedures and apaart from the incorrect use of equipment, on of the biggest sins is to slop antiseize all over the nuts and studs regardless of whether the chassis manufacturers calls for lubricated threads or clean dry threads. Getting it wrong can mean a given torque can cause overstretching of the stud by a big enough factor to effectively negate the normal factor of safety incorporated into all mechanical designs.)

Another factor that is often not considered is whether the wheels are hub piloted (centred/located) or stud piloted. In one case the nuts bed down into matching cones to locate the wheel precisely and in the other the face between the nut and the wheel may be flat and location is by a tight fit between the hub and the centre hole of the wheel. Alloy rims run an additional risk where overtightening may actually cause rim failure as well as increasing the risk of stud breakage.

Steve - I would think the last shop to touch the wheels before the accident MUST have been grossly negligent and should cough up for all costs associated with the accident (which is the wrong word to use because this was negligence and certainly no accident). A very occasional broken stud might be just normal fatigue, but so many broken studs so soon after a wheel change is not acceptable regardless of whether it was 20 miles or 200 miles after they messed up.

BTW, some BigRigs have nut torques of around 500 ft lbs and that is a lot of torque to be trying to check every 25 miles. I've seen fit young men really struggle to reach that figure with a huge torque wrench, so us oldies don't have much of a chance. I stand over the tyre fitters and make sure they do it exactly to specification and I have never had a nut come loose after that - ever. I once picked a vehicle up after purchase and had asked the shop to loosen all nuts and tighten them the right way. Found one wheel with all nuts loose. Must have been one done before an urgent toilet break.
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Old 11-04-2014, 06:27 PM   #22
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Checking torque is easy...

Better with old school bar and pointer type but the micrometer type works too.

Assuming it is overtightened then simply set wrench to 10 under and try to LOOSEN one.

Step up 10 at a time until it turns.

If old style then have a helper watch the indicator and pull SLOWLY until it moves and observe the reading when it does.

And if you were just checking via large wrench and only pushed and did not turn or set a torque wrench to spec and pushed until click then person who installed certianly can be at fault if overtorqued as the bolts are under undue stress and will fail at some point down the road...minutes to weeks...

Suggest you take it to a good tire shop with specific instructions to measure and document the torque of all remaining lugs.

Also maybe contact corporate headquarters as well as this is something that can kill people.

DO NOT TAKE THIS LIGHTLY!

Wheel coming off of trailer can cause both you and other cars to loose control and get real ugly real fast.

So if this happened to you and it was due to their work then how many other time bombs are on the road.
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Old 11-05-2014, 05:41 AM   #23
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"how many other time bombs are on the road."

obviously every vehicle that has passed through that shop. What was the name again? Ah yes, Camping World in Tuscon. They should put out a national recall.

BTW torque required to undo a nut may not be a good indication of the torque that was used to tighten it. Generally will be higher, and the longer it is since it was done up, the more torque will be required to loosen it - which is why they do need to use rattle guns to undo lug nuts
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:17 AM   #24
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True on the higher removal torque maybe but suspect over torqued by much more than that due to failure of bolts.
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:23 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Steve Hoover View Post
Thanks for your reply. All the studs were broken off completely on the front tire and 4 studs on the rear tire were broken off. In addition, two studs on the right side of the RV were stripped (cross threaded?). The tire shop discovered this when they were checking all tires. I will take your advice and have all studs replaced. Thanks again.
That would lead me to believe that they were over torqued.
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:36 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Steve Hoover View Post
Thanks for your reply. All the studs were broken off completely on the front tire and 4 studs on the rear tire were broken off. In addition, two studs on the right side of the RV were stripped (cross threaded?). The tire shop discovered this when they were checking all tires. I will take your advice and have all studs replaced. Thanks again.
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That would lead me to believe that they were over torqued.
Steve
IMO that is nobody's fault but the shop that installed your wheels/tires.
BTW, since you trusted Camping World to do the installation it is neither surprising or unusual that you had problems.
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Old 11-05-2014, 11:31 AM   #27
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Not necessarily true. As the nuts work loose and the wheel starts wobbling on the studs all sorts of forces are present. If 4 loosen, then all the pressure goes to the tight one, breaking it, then the next tightest, etc.
HMMM - what are the chances that 8 of 10 studs (assuming a 5 bolt pattern) on two wheels would break at the same time? It is possible but highly unlikely.
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Old 11-05-2014, 11:45 AM   #28
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Steve
IMO that is nobody's fault but the shop that installed your wheels/tires.
BTW, since you trusted Camping World to do the installation it is neither surprising or unusual that you had problems.
Mel
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IMHO, you have tossed a bitter pill at Steve (the OP) without factual foundation.
There are many of us that trust certain CW locations because of prior good work.
Perhaps this was a one-off occurance by this worker or this shop?
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