Tire Problems

[Genset]

Proves not everyone has a clue as to torque of lug nuts, if I had been an office worker
I might be in the same boat, however My world has been in the mechanical world, so this story leaves me with the clear picture of inability. After a few hundred miles, a few times checking the torque then two wheels FALL off leaving the studs on the hub ? Your pulling my chain.
Dave M

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by Steve Hoover

Thanks for your reply. All the studs were broken off completely on the front tire and 4 studs on the rear tire were broken off. In addition, two studs on the right side of the RV were stripped (cross threaded?). The tire shop discovered this when they were checking all tires. I will take your advice and have all studs replaced. Thanks again.

If the nuts were over tightened it can permanently stretch the bolt and it will never hold correctly again. Proper torque actually stretches the bolt slightly, but it will not be permanent. Overtighten the stud/bolt too much and the stretching is permanent. Trying to torque a stretched bolt/stud simply stretches it some more and it loosens up immediately. So if CW overtightened and stretched the studs no amount of re-torquing will keep the nuts tight.

[Franka548]

It is possible that your axles had a batch of defective studs. I had that happen on my '73 pickup, almost lost a rear wheel with an 11 1/2' truck camper on. I felt a vibration and stopped alongside the road, found 4 loose nuts and 2 broken studs with the nuts still attached. I put them on myself and no they were not over torqued. This happened over 1000 miles after I had changed them and checked them.
Another thing is with aluminum wheels, you have to retorque the nuts frequently, as they will loosen occasionally. I always check mine before I leave on every trip, both truck and trailer.
Frank

[Padeen]

America's Tire (Not American Tire) on SW Pacific Hwy (99W) in Portland, OR sold me some tires, mounted them, and severely over-torqued and cross-threaded the studs. They didn't come off, either on their own, or when I needed to rotate them! Had to use a 6' cheater bar on 3 of the 8 studs on one side and 2 of 8 on the other (just new rears); found the hard ones were partially stripped and clogged so bad that it was touch-and-go whether we'd need to cut them off (and ruin a rim). But finally got them all. This seems to be a recurring problem with tire dealers so it's important to check your lugs after a new installation, loosening them first, then torquing them to specs, and walk right back in and expect redress if the job has been botched. BTW, I tried and tried to xthred a lugnut by hand and couldn't; they just wouldn't go on the wrong way! So it's clearly someone putting them on with a pneumatic gun at high speed and just rattling them until they stop moving. That's a LOT of extra torque!

[TQ60]

In my gas station days in the 70's we always put them on by hand until the wheels were seated.

Simple process putting pressure on the tire to push rim against drum.

Then touch off with the gun.

These folks now act like nascar pit crews and often place nut in socket and hit the bolt or maybe 1/2 a turn.

Saves a few seconds but even when correct the nut and bolt get real hot and that may effect resting torque when cooled.

OP needs to follow up with management where work was done and report the rest of the story.

[slickest1]

Another possibility would be a prankster loosened them when you were parked somewhere. Being they were both on the same side and the other side stayed on makes me wonder. I have heard of people pulling pins on tow bars etc. you just never know.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by TQ60

In my gas station days in the 70's we always put them on by hand until the wheels were seated.
Simple process putting pressure on the tire to push rim against drum.
Then touch off with the gun.
These folks now act like nascar pit crews and often place nut in socket and hit the bolt or maybe 1/2 a turn.
Saves a few seconds but even when correct the nut and bolt get real hot and that may effect resting torque when cooled.
OP needs to follow up with management where work was done and report the rest of the story.

TQ6
I agree that the "OP needs to follow up with management where work was done".
However, touching off with a gun is not the proper/safe way to torque/tighten lug nuts.
Mel
'96 Safari

[dvmweb]

Had new tires put on MH front end. I had to sign a waiver that I would check nuts at 50 mi and 250 with a torque wrench to 450 ftlbs. I was surprised how far I could turn the nuts each time, much more at 50 and just a little at 250. I had to borrow a big torque wrench and socket from a farmer friend.


2013 FleetWood Expedition 38B

[Forest Grump]

Steel can become brittle and break for several different reasons including pollution and even cold. I have seen drill collars, 4" thick, snap in half when dropped a couple of feet, crystallization at -76. The harder some steels are the more they will become brittle in the presence of hydrogen sulfide for example. Some steels just are poorly made and are brittle. You can determine what happened by examining the studs that broke, have a corrosion engineer or a metallurgist do it.

You have no facts and your driving a few hundred miles on the tires along with your "checking" the torque yourself, without the proper tool pretty much puts the problem on your shoulders. You can't fault CW just because some forum members do. Do you know the proper torque for your lug nuts? Do you know how to use a torque wrench? Do you know if your studs were replaced? Who was the manufacturer? We're they heat treated or had anyone taken a torch to them? What was the tensile strength of the studs and how much torque would be required to tighten the lug nuts tight enough to reach it? Some studs have tensile strength in the 200,000 psi range. What was the material in the axle, wheel, stud and lug nut?

BTW threads, not to be confused with forum threads are a common point for corrosion and failure. Come to think of it so are forum threads. If you have an aluminum wheel and steel based studs and/or lug nuts you now have dissimilar metals and a galvanic cell. The threads provide a starting point, enhances and speeds up the corrosion. Many steel alloys resist corrosion, many do not.

For those who aren't happy with Camping World it's nothing more than your opinion. Studs when tightened don't store torque. Torque is the measure of how much a force acting on an object causes that object to rotate.




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[BFlinn181]

You could call Camping World and tell them of your issue, but I wouldn't expect anything from them. Perhaps they will train the mechs to start nuts by hand and torque with a proper torque wrench instead of the air wrench, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I always stand at the shop window if not allowed into the shop (for insurance reasons ) and if I see them start to tighten with an air wrench, I yell "STOP" and get them to use a torque wrench --- or I get mine out of the trunk and tighten them myself.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by Forest Grump

For those who aren't happy with Camping World it's nothing more than your opinion. Studs when tightened don't store torque. Torque is the measure of how much a force acting on an object causes that object to rotate.

The torque is not stored, the torque causes the stud/bolt to stretch very slightly, this is what keeps the nut/bolt tight. If the stud/bolt is torqued too much it stretches and will continue to stretch.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by Forest Grump

Steel can become brittle and break for several different reasons including pollution and even cold. I have seen drill collars, 4" thick, snap in half when dropped a couple of feet, crystallization at -76. The harder some steels are the more they will become brittle in the presence of hydrogen sulfide for example. Some steels just are poorly made and are brittle. You can determine what happened by examining the studs that broke, have a corrosion engineer or a metallurgist do it.

You have no facts and your driving a few hundred miles on the tires along with your "checking" the torque yourself, without the proper tool pretty much puts the problem on your shoulders. You can't fault CW just because some forum members do. Do you know the proper torque for your lug nuts? Do you know how to use a torque wrench? Do you know if your studs were replaced? Who was the manufacturer? We're they heat treated or had anyone taken a torch to them? What was the tensile strength of the studs and how much torque would be required to tighten the lug nuts tight enough to reach it? Some studs have tensile strength in the 200,000 psi range. What was the material in the axle, wheel, stud and lug nut?

BTW threads, not to be confused with forum threads are a common point for corrosion and failure. Come to think of it so are forum threads. If you have an aluminum wheel and steel based studs and/or lug nuts you now have dissimilar metals and a galvanic cell. The threads provide a starting point, enhances and speeds up the corrosion. Many steel alloys resist corrosion, many do not.

For those who aren't happy with Camping World it's nothing more than your opinion. Studs when tightened don't store torque. Torque is the measure of how much a force acting on an object causes that object to rotate.




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You bring up some very interesting points. Some could apply to the OP situation, some definitely not. Failure due to extreme cold, hydrogen sulfide or galvanic action. Nothing in the OP thread could infer these are a factor. The shop should have observed corrosion if any was there during the change.

Main point of contention IMO is the fact that 8 of 10 bolts on one side failed and two nuts were cross threaded on the other side. Too many coincidences, too soon after repair.

While operator abuse is inferred what are the chances that the OP is responsible so soon after the tire change? Not unless the OP deliberately or inadvertently over tightened the lug nuts. Common sense and logic would seem to say it was done incorrectly from the start.

It is quite difficult to over torque lug nuts with the crappy lug nut wrenches provided by car manufacturers. Not many people carry a snipe to add the extra omph required to break 8 studs within a couple hundred miles.

IMO the problem began at the shop.

[Forest Grump]

You can't rule any of the above out the studs may have been waiting to fail. All of them going is how catastrophic failures happen.

There is nothing to support the shop doing it other than opinions. Examination of the broken studs would reveal the cause. The rest is speculation. I believe he had 1000 miles on them and checked, probably tightened them 2-3 times more.

When we were kids my brother didn't know anything but over tighten and boy he did.

The only ones who know are the studs.

The rest is conjecture.



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[Steve Hoover]

Studs broke off! Not pulling your chain.