Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > iRV2.com General Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-17-2010, 03:14 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Always-RVing's Avatar
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 959
Towing Laws Legal Information (State Info)

(The Law) Max lengths, etc
http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

(The law) Min tow Weight requiring a tow braking system:

Towing Laws | BrakeBuddy - Braking systems for motorhomes towing a vehicle

Although you may decide a braking system is not needed, watch out for a dozen attorneys jumping all over you in case of an accident. And...BIG And.. Your insurance may be void if you're running illegal and you're involved in an accident.

There was a serious accident case reported, and it was proven that the vehicle could have stopped in time if they had a tow braking system.

Also, there is an article (I think on iRV2) about someone who went through (maybe) California thinking they were only passing through. Got stopped and the State Police forced them to put the vehicle on a flatbed truck and haul it out of the state. They were not permitted to move the over length vehicle (or some violation) one foot on the highways.
__________________

__________________
Fleetwood Providence 2008 40e
Ford F-350 4x4 Diesel 6.0L 2006
Honda CR-V 2006
Always-RVing is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-17-2010, 03:41 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 256
Here's another one. This one seems to be more accurate.
__________________

__________________
Mandys Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 05:29 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Always-RVing's Avatar
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 959
There sure is a lot of descrepancy around what appears to be official documents.

http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

and

Toad Brake Requirements

There is a difference in some states referring to a trailer or a car being towed. Are the documents up-to-date? Do they reflect the latest laws?
__________________
Fleetwood Providence 2008 40e
Ford F-350 4x4 Diesel 6.0L 2006
Honda CR-V 2006
Always-RVing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 02:19 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,829
One word of caution: I have been to some of the list-of-state-laws sites and on some of them it says that MICHIGAN has no law about brakes on towed cars.

I also have the Michigan Vehicle code under my left hand as I type (That's where the hard drive is) and while there is no language anywhere in the code that says that "A car in tow must have aux brakes" There is language that says a Trailer over so many pounds must have such brakes (I think it's 1500 pounds but please do not accept that figure without checking)

And when I looked up TRAILER I found:

257.73 “Trailer” defined.
Sec. 73. “Trailer” means every vehicle with or without motive power, other than a pole-trailer, designed
for carrying property or persons and for being drawn by a motor vehicle and so constructed that no part of its
weight rests upon the towing vehicle.
History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949.

That is a cut and paste folks

And a car towed 4-down.. I think that's the very best fit to that definition as well. A 5-er or TT rests at least in part on the towing vehicle.. a Car towed 4-down does not.

So beware the "no law" comments in those lists cause the folks who made them up may have missed a passage or two that a smart State Trooper (Or Dispatcher in my case) might have read.
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 02:36 PM   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
Here's the Texas definition of a trailer:

Quote:
Texas Transportation Code
Title 7 - Vehicles and Traffic
Subtitle C - Rules of the Road
Chapter 541 - Definitions
Section 541.201 - Vehicles
(20) "Trailer" means a vehicle, other than a pole trailer, with or without motive power:
(A) designed to be drawn by a motor vehicle and to transport persons or property; and
(B) constructed so that no part of the vehicle's weight and load rests on the motor vehicle.
Rusty
__________________
RustyJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2010, 09:19 AM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
Gary RVRoamer's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Silver Springs, FL. USA
Posts: 18,096
Most states have other laws that grant various exceptions for cars in tow. These are often intended to allow the tow truck industry to operate without restriction, but they are exceptions none-the-less. It is very risky to quote a state regulation out of context without studying the entire vehicle code of the state, something that is beyond the endurance of most of us!

I'm not arguing against toad brakes - I wouldn't move without one - but our amateur attempts at legal advice are most likely flawed.

Most guys agree that "you can't have too much horsepower". To that we should add..."and you can't have too much braking either!".
__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition
Home is in the Ocala Nat'l Forest near Ocala, FL
Summers in Black Mountain, NC
Gary RVRoamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2010, 04:33 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,829
Yes, there may well be exceptions but it's possible to say "Tow truck" in the law

And, in the case of the Michigan (And Texas) laws.. The towing company I worked for would haul 'em in two at a time with Flatbed tow trucks with stingers

On the flat bed, the entire weight of the "towed" vehicle rested on the towing vehicle thus it was not, per the law, a trailer (it was cargo)

and on the one on the stinger,, the majority of the weight of a front engine car is of course... resting on the stinger, and that's part of the towing vehicle. so again we do not have a true trailer.

NOTE: As I said.. A car towed 4-down fits the definition better than a 5th wheel trailer.

A normal trailer (Even a 5-er) way more than half the weight is on it's own wheels.. This is not the case when a tow truck picks up my car.

And Gary, Flawed though our attempts may be.. Your comment on not having too much braking is, in my opinion, accurate (Too little you can have)

And if we are going to err.. Erring on the side of safety is the way to go.

I know.. If someone without aux-brakes rear-ends me.. i'm going to smile big time. (Assuming I'm not hurt)
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2010, 04:47 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,829
Gary... I don't know what happened to my reply but when I came back to edit it was missing:

I think the advice in this thread (Which seems to be to use a good braking system) is good.. It may be that not all states require it, but I think most do, My position is even if there is no language specifically saying a car in tow needs brakes.. You might wish to see if such a car is classed as a trailer.

I do agree, you can't have too much brakes.

Now: As for tow truck exemptions: Let's take a look at the Michigan (And it appears Texas) laws.

I used to dispatch flat bed tow trucks.. We would tow in cars 2 at a time

One on the bed, of course the weight of that one is resting entierly on the towing vehicle so it's cargo, not a trailer and not covered by trailer rules

The one on the "Stinger" had most of it's weight resting on the towing vehicle as well.. and thus was not a trailer.

A car on a dolly: Same as a stinger

A car on a full auto trailer: Same as the one on the bed of the truck (in both cases the dolly or trailer needs brakes however)

A car towed 4-down: The very definition of "Trailer" under the MI/TX law.

And of course.... You tow without an aux brake system and rear end me, assuming nobody gets hurt.. I'm going to call a very good lawyer and chat.

The bottom line is this: Having 3 or 4 thousands pounds of "Trailer" with no brakes is simply reckless, and reckless can be expensive in court.
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2010, 07:25 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northwestern Montana
Posts: 3,138
Braking System: Towing Vehicles

26458. (a) The braking system on every motor vehicle used to tow another vehicle shall be so arranged that one control on the towing vehicle shall, when applied, operate all the service brakes on the power unit and combination of vehicles when either or both of the following conditions exist:
(1) The towing vehicle is required to be equipped with power brakes.
(2) The towed vehicle is required to be equipped with brakes and is equipped with power brakes.
(b) Subdivision (a) shall not be construed to prohibit motor vehicles from being equipped with an additional control to be used to operate the brakes on the trailer or trailers.
(c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following combinations of vehicles, if the combination of vehicles meets the stopping distance requirements of Section 26454:
(1) Vehicles engaged in driveaway-towaway operations.
(2) Disabled vehicles, while being towed.
(3) Towed motor vehicles.

Cut and Paste from California DMV

The stopping distance mentioned in Section 26454 of the code is from 20 mph to zero in 50 ft.



Dieselclacker
__________________
dieselclacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 09:12 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Rich and Cork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,052
California does NOT require you to have brakes on your towed vehicle:

Driving Your RV Safely
Motor Homes Towing Cars

Towing small cars behind motor homes has become popular as a way of providing transportation after the motor home is parked at a camp site. Towing a car differs from towing travel trailers or fifth-wheel trailers. Very little hitch weight is involved when the car is towed on all four wheels and only minimal hitch weight is involved when the car is towed on a dolly.
If you wish to tow a vehicle behind your motor home, you need to consider whether or not your motor home can handle the extra weight under all conditions (i.e., climbing steep hills or mountains). Your vehicle must have sufficient power to climb grades without holding up traffic and its braking power must be sufficient to stop the combined weight of the motor home plus the car and/or tow dolly effectively. Motor home chassis manufacturers provide limits on gross combined weight (motor home plus car).
If you are towing a car, be sure the hitch attachment on the motor home is secure. Hitch weight ratings are usually stamped on the hitch assemblies. The tow bar attachment is also a concern because of the integrated frame construction used in most small cars. If you use a tow bar, safety chains are required, but a breakaway switch is not. Fully operational tail, brake, and turn signal lights are required on the towed car.
It's easy to forget you are towing a car when driving a large motor home because you can't see it. So remember to allow extra space when entering a freeway or passing another vehicle so you won't cut off the other driver. Your vehicle combination cannot exceed 65 feet. However, cities and counties may prohibit vehicle combination lengths over 60 feet, when posted. (VC §35401)
One other thing to consider—you may only tow a single vehicle with your Class C driver license. You may not tow two vehicles or trailers with a Class C license. (Example: You cannot tow a boat trailer/boat and car behind your motor home or pickup/camper.)
__________________
2001 34' Alpine Coach
2008 Jeep Rubicon or 2012 Ford F150 4x4 Lariat towds
or a couple of different trailers
Retired in Apple Valley, California
Rich and Cork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 10:26 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,829
Now here is a prime example of example of web-obtained info

We have Dieselclacker who posted the actual California Vehicle Code excerpt which to me clearly says that if either the towing vehicle is required to have power assist brakes,,,, Or if the TOWED vehicle has power brakes (Both of which apply in 99.9 percent of the cases I'm sure) then a single control (The brake pedal) in the towing vehicle must apply both towed and towing vehicle brakes when operated... I'd say there is no ambugitiy there. BRAKE SYSTEM REQUIRED in California. The law also allows additional means of applying towed vehicle brakes without applying towing vehicle brakes (Ok, that is normal on Semi's by the way)

It also specifically exempts tow trucks.

Follwing that we have another poster who says "California does not require brakes".... Uh, Sir.. Have you read Diesel's post where he posted the actual law?
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 12:29 PM   #12
Moderator Emeritus
 
Gary RVRoamer's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Silver Springs, FL. USA
Posts: 18,096
Quote:
We have Dieselclacker who posted the actual California Vehicle Code excerpt which to me clearly says that if either the towing vehicle is required to have power assist brakes,,,, Or if the TOWED vehicle has power brakes (Both of which apply in 99.9 percent of the cases I'm sure) then a single control (The brake pedal) in the towing vehicle must apply both towed and towing vehicle brakes when operated... I'd say there is no ambugitiy there. BRAKE SYSTEM REQUIRED in California.
It also says in part c-3 that part a does not apply to TOWED MOTOR VEHICLES if they meet the requirements of 26454, which is not included here. So we are right back to ambiguous again.

I reiterate that quoting one or two paragraphs of law out of context is fraught with the potential for error. That's what keeps lawyers and judges employed.
__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition
Home is in the Ocala Nat'l Forest near Ocala, FL
Summers in Black Mountain, NC
Gary RVRoamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 01:28 PM   #13
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV Roamer [Gary] View Post
I reiterate that quoting one or two paragraphs of law out of context is fraught with the potential for error. That's what keeps lawyers and judges employed.
A viable approach, then, is for one to educate himself on the applicable law. HERE is the entirety of the Texas Constitution and Statutes - click on Texas Statutes on the left side, then Transportation Code.

Rusty
__________________
RustyJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 09:08 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Hooligan's Avatar
 
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Pensacola
Posts: 2,209
RV Roamer: The post by Dieselclacker does includes Section 26454 of the Code which is able to stop from 20mph in 50 feet.

Florida Statute 316.262 Braking performance for Motor vehicles lists several combinations of vehicles and

"C-4 -All Combinations of vehicles in driveaway-towaway operations
(Includes Motorhome with Vehicle in tow)
braking distance to stop from 20mph is not more than 40 feet."

And: "(3) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318."
__________________

__________________
Hooligan, Pensacola, Fl -U.S. Coast Guard 1956-1985
2016 Thor Siesta Sprinter 24ST diesel
Our Pug "Lily" & "George" the Newfoundland
Hooligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Arizona State Parks Closing ChiefJohn Camping Locations, Plans & Trip Reports 2 01-18-2010 11:59 AM
'91 Wrangler YJ towing info needed CMcCardell Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 8 06-23-2009 06:07 PM
Saturn Outlook towing = dead battery PORCHDOG Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 26 07-04-2007 07:21 PM
Looking For Florida State Park Info GG1 Florida Cooters 9 06-03-2007 07:08 AM
Excel State Club News ChiefJohn Excel Owner's Forum 5 03-02-2007 04:55 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.