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Old 05-20-2013, 03:14 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by CJGJR View Post
Fox news last night just had a special about Fla reducing the yellow light timing by up to 1/2 second on the new red light camera intersections.
Maybe I am dating myself, but they used to call that "defensive driving", or even just careful driving... I was taught to watch the GREEN light, and if it was "cold" (been green for quite a while) to be ready to start slowing for the red.

Listen to yourselves!

... it only got me because they changed the yellow light "...by UP TO ONE HALF A SECOND..."!!!!

The OP admits the light was red BEFORE he entered the intersection, but now because he was only going 37 in a 45 zone, so he wasn't "speeding", so shouldn't pay ...????

...the daughter had waited 2 or three lights, was impatient, so it was okay to CHOOSE to run the red, especially since someone in front of her was also doing it... and she's not local, so it's ok to not pay...???? (Try turning in Orlando rush hour ... 20 minutes to get through an intersection in rush hour with time for just 2 or 3 cars turning each time!)

... and a long list of other excuses (oops, I mean "reasons") why it is okay to break the law. Funny how those giving the "proof" why the ticket is not fair seem to be the same ones saying they do it...

If you are hit by the other driver trying to beat his red light, will you be saying "...that's okay, the yellow light didn't give him enough warning!". Or will you jump right in with your insurance company at the lawyer's office screaming "...he ran the red light!!!".

The most dangerous part of driving is getting through the intersection safely. I would hope as RVers, we would hold ourselves to a little higher standard!

(PLEASE NOTE: this is referring to RED LIGHT cameras ... NOT "right on red" turns, and NOT speed cameras, which is a whole different critter! Example - interstate speed limit through downtown Orlando is 55... traffic is usually going 75... in some places you can actually be ticketed for going the speed limit and thereby causing an "obstruction" to the general flow of traffic! )

Kathryn

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Old 05-20-2013, 03:26 PM   #58
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Did you know, a lot of the red light cameras are owned and operated by a contractor? In Brick Township, NJ where I recently worked, each camera cost the township $4,300 per month, per intersection, per approach. That means each camera must generate at least that much in tickets just to cover the cost! But don't worry. With just 3 intersections camera equipped, and after all cost, the township netted $684,496 last year!

(Red Light Cam Revenue Grows in Brick, But Crash Injuries Down to Zero - Brick, NJ Patch)
I would point out that the last half of that headline justifies the profit!

Quote:
... Studies now show that the lower yellow light times have actually caused more accidents than preventing them. They have changed in nature from T bone type accidents to rear end collisions...
and if you READ the article, they address that issue as well! While there was a SLIGHT increase in rear-end collisions, the INJURIES were down to ZERO because the T bone type accidents are so much more dangerous!

Still leaves running the red light as illegal!

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Old 05-20-2013, 04:03 PM   #59
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If you spray it with clear with the reflecting crystals in it it comes out pure white on the photo due to the flash.
Didn't Mythbusters find that it didn't work?
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:57 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Kathryn View Post
...the daughter had waited 2 or three lights, was impatient, so it was okay to CHOOSE to run the red, especially since someone in front of her was also doing it... and she's not local, so it's ok to not pay...???? (Try turning in Orlando rush hour ... 20 minutes to get through an intersection in rush hour with time for just 2 or 3 cars turning each time!)

Kathryn

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I said 3-4 light changes, not 2 or 3. She was behind a car turning left in the intersection waiting for traffic to clear to turn. As the driver ahead was 'creeping' forward, she was following so she too could turn on that cycle. Evidently she crept up to the limit line, because as she turned, her husband and my son saw the flash of the camera. Since she felt she hadn't done anything wrong, she shrugged if off until a month later and 7800 miles away. In the states I've held licenses, (PA, IN, and OH) it's legal to pull into the intersection on green to make a left turn, waiting for opposite traffic to clear. That's her and my story and I'll stick to it.

My problem is with the automated cameras, installed by independent vendors, who then reduce light timing to raise revenue for themselves and the greedy city officials who aren't as interested in safety as income. The courts are then rigged to make it almost impossible to fight the ticket because there was only a computerized camera as a witness and no human authority you can question. The camera is accepted as 'God' and the driver is guilty (as in your eyes) with no due process.

Ironically, the company that runs the cameras is an Australian company, Redflex. Many municipalities have cancelled their contracts because of legal and political issues and the fact that the number of accidents actually goes up in the camera equipped intersections.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:03 PM   #61
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As the driver ahead was 'creeping' forward, she was following so she too could turn on that cycle. Evidently she crept up to the limit line,
If she waited for the intersection to clear before entering ( which is the law) no ticket would have been issued. More then one vehicle turning on a yellow/ red light is a dangerous.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:06 PM   #62
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There have been some nice responses here, especially the recommendation to look for the walk/don't walk indicators that the light is going to change.

After researching I changed my mind about paying the fine. Yes, I was prepared to "man up" because the video clearly shows the MH and toad entering and exiting the intersection while the light is red.

However, before some of you that jumped to condemning conclusions here are some facts to consider that you did not know:

The video shows I was going 37 mph in a 45 zone. So, speeding is not the problem.

As far back as 2011 a Tampa TV investigative story aired showing that the federal government issues yellow light minimums and that many cities deliberately lowered those minimums to generate more revenue. How do I know this? Each city posts those minimums on their web sites. And yes, Palm Coast is below those minimums.

The company in AZ that provides these cameras have lobbyists in Pensacola and making contributions to politicians that oppose changing any of the laws that would make these cameras truly useful to protect the lives of the public. That company along with the government in Pensacola are making millions from what the investigative story called "a scheme" to supplement declining revenues.

Studies now show that the lower yellow light times have actually caused more accidents than preventing them. They have changed in nature from T bone type accidents to rear end collisions.

And finally, the safest way to prevent accidents using intersection safety has proven to be pausing the change from red to green an additional 3 seconds before the stopped traffic can go. Some cities that really are interested in safety rather than revenue have proven this concept.

I am one of those defensive drivers that has an exceptional driving record. That is not the same as those that will run red lights because of their aggressive driving habits. However, I am willing to pay for my mistakes and "man up" for my
dumb decisions. And I make plenty of them. But being manipulated by a money making scheme makes me want to fight things like this.

Dave
Since you've decided to contest the ticket, how does one go about doing that, in your case at least? Do you go in front of a judge, or what?
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:40 PM   #63
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Didn't Mythbusters find that it didn't work?
If I remember right, a Lamborghini or such got past the camera at 180 mph or something like that.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:34 PM   #64
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If I remember right, a Lamborghini or such got past the camera at 180 mph or something like that.

LOL! ummm ... through an intersection?
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:43 PM   #65
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Since you've decided to contest the ticket, how does one go about doing that, in your case at least? Do you go in front of a judge, or what?
After talking to an attorney today in PC he said there are a couple of ways to contest this citation.

1. The camera showing my entry into the intersection does not have a definitive view of my front bumper crossing the solid line before the light turned red. This is where traffic is supposed to stop. It could be argued that the MH had crossed that line before the light turned red. As the law states, once you cross that line, even if the traffic light turns red you cannot be cited.

2. Since the traffic light does not meet federal minimums for how long the yellow light stays on (in this case a minimum of 4.3 seconds) the judge may dismiss the case. However, he said that would be a call the local judge has discretion over.

All that being said, PC is changing the law, and he was not sure if it already has been enacted, to up the fines for those that contest these citations to $400 if you loose. What does that sound like?

With no guarantees from the attorney (who could appear in my behalf) I will pay the fine and hope this discussion has made more people aware of the "scheme" corporations and cities are running to increase revenue.

What I find interesting among those that are hard liners and judgmental is the fact they have not addressed or commented on what studies have revealed and stated in an earlier post. That is, pausing the red light an additional 3 seconds on the traffic that has already come to a stop can reduce the number of intersection accidents more effectively that the cameras.

Yes, I broke their law and will pay the penalty.

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Old 05-20-2013, 08:43 PM   #66
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Yes Kathryn, it was through an intersection during rush hour.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:04 PM   #67
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If I remember right, a Lamborghini or such got past the camera at 180 mph or something like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn View Post
LOL! ummm ... through an intersection?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunner View Post
Yes Kathryn, it was through an intersection during rush hour.
No, it didn't.

Here quoting from Mythbuster's website, specifically its l-o-o-o-n-g page on red light cameras:
Quote:
MYTH:"A speed camera cannot take a picture of a car if it is going fast enough."
BUSTED*
Neither a normal car nor a Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 were able to travel fast enough to outrun the camera.

*This myth was revisited in episode 84 with a jet-powered car and it was confirmed.
Sheesh!

What's the point of Mythbusters going to all that trouble if folks don't get the results right?
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:37 PM   #68
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TV ratings.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:36 PM   #69
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Just in case one of you received a RLC ticket this is one more thing the news investigative report said you could do if you want to contest a citation like this.

WHAT SHOULD I DO IF I'M CAUGHT RUNNING A RED?
10 News cannot provide legal advice, but you may have grounds to appeal an automated citation for a variety of reasons. If you believe you were ticketed because of a short yellow light, you may want to:
1. Go online to review your ticket and record the video with a cell phone or other recording device.
2. Going frame-by-frame, detemine if the yellow light failed to last as long as mandated by the TEM chart posted above. Also note how long the light was red before you entered the intersection.
3. You may be able to appeal if you can prove the yellow light was too short and you would have normally made it through a normal yellow light.
4. Even if the length of the yellow light meets the minimum, you may still be able to appeal if the yellow intervals are too short for drivers' actual average approach speed. The national suggestions posted above indicate safe stopping speed should be considered when planning RLC placements and yellow light times.

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Old 05-22-2013, 08:23 AM   #70
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If you had family or friends who have been hurt or killed by red light runners or have had close calls due to people's inattention or disregard for red lights at intersections you might understand my strong feelings on the issue.
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