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Old 10-14-2019, 12:16 PM   #1
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Truths about Lithium Ion

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I purchased 2 lithium 100ah batteries. I also purchased a progressive dynamics PD4060LICSV lithium charger to replace my current 4 stage lead acid/agm battery charger. This lithium charger provides a constant 14.6VDC as long as it is receiving AC power.

Battle Born sells this charger on their website and states "These Units are designed to properly charge lithium iron phosphate batteries.". So i email them about the constant 14.6 volts always getting pushed to the batteries. I figure the BMS will manage the input and do what's necessary. They reply to me and say" they recommend disconnecting the charger."

Does that not sound crazy?? I understand the concept and maybe they are telling me this for full 100% protection of the battery, but when you sell a charger for your lithium batteries, you shouldn't have to tell people to disconnect it when that's not in the reasonable use of the charger. Yeah, i only have to flip a breaker, but that's still not a "drop in ready battery".

So, those of you with lithium batteries and chargers that throw a constant 14.6 volts, do you disconnect them from charging when they get full? This would mostly apply when being plugged into shore power.
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Old 10-14-2019, 12:59 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ_Clemson View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I purchased 2 lithium 100ah batteries. I also purchased a progressive dynamics PD4060LICSV lithium charger to replace my current 4 stage lead acid/agm battery charger. This lithium charger provides a constant 14.6VDC as long as it is receiving AC power.

Battle Born sells this charger on their website and states "These Units are designed to properly charge lithium iron phosphate batteries.". So i email them about the constant 14.6 volts always getting pushed to the batteries. I figure the BMS will manage the input and do what's necessary. They reply to me and say" they recommend disconnecting the charger."

Does that not sound crazy?? I understand the concept and maybe they are telling me this for full 100% protection of the battery, but when you sell a charger for your lithium batteries, you shouldn't have to tell people to disconnect it when that's not in the reasonable use of the charger. Yeah, i only have to flip a breaker, but that's still not a "drop in ready battery".

So, those of you with lithium batteries and chargers that throw a constant 14.6 volts, do you disconnect them from charging when they get full? This would mostly apply when being plugged into shore power.
It does sound the should sell a charger that goes back to float after charging to 14.6. My victron goes to 13.6 after 5 min at 14.4, and stays there till voltage drops to 13.2 or so, then back to bulk at 14.4. Do not think you can harm batteries because of BMS, but agree with BB, would just shut off charger till down to 50% SOC or so.
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Old 10-14-2019, 01:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Does that not sound crazy?
Sounds ridiculously crazy to me!

There's no way I'd have a system like that because I know I would not be able, would not even try, to constantly keep up the level of charge the batteries had. I'd forget and leave the charger on too long or vice versa, forget to turn it on when needed.

Could there be some miscommunication going on here? If not, then selling this as an RV charger is misleading to say the least. A good RV charger should not have to be manually cycled on and off to keep from overcharging the batteries.
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Old 10-14-2019, 03:16 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Mudfrog View Post
Sounds ridiculously crazy to me!

There's no way I'd have a system like that because I know I would not be able, would not even try, to constantly keep up the level of charge the batteries had. I'd forget and leave the charger on too long or vice versa, forget to turn it on when needed.

Could there be some miscommunication going on here? If not, then selling this as an RV charger is misleading to say the least. A good RV charger should not have to be manually cycled on and off to keep from overcharging the batteries.
Thank you... I agree, the last thing I want to do is constantly remember to look at my battery capacity and then flip my breaker on or off. That is exactly what I'm trying to avoid by using a transfer switch.

Here is the charger on their website.
https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...cement-pd4060/

I may just try to call them and get a different opinion.
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Old 10-14-2019, 03:56 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by EJ_Clemson View Post
Thank you... I agree, the last thing I want to do is constantly remember to look at my battery capacity and then flip my breaker on or off. That is exactly what I'm trying to avoid by using a transfer switch.

Here is the charger on their website.
https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...cement-pd4060/

I may just try to call them and get a different opinion.
Think you just got the battery boiler standard one voltage converter. You should ask them if you can trade it for the PD4060CSV, which has the battery minder built in [3 stage charger] or maybe a add on battery minder. I know this works for LA batteries, but as absorption is not necessary for LI, might or might not work. More expensive, but probably easier, go with an LI compatible inverter/charger and get rid of the converter.
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Old 10-14-2019, 05:04 PM   #6
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I think there is some miscommunication going on. Call Progressive Dynamics before you throw more money at it. I am fairly certain that the wording you are reading is Battleborns way of covering themselves so they can deny liability. I can't think of any charger built in the last decade that did not sense voltage and go into a float or no charge state. Lots of folks install stuff without reading the warnings so the list ability for such a system would be massive. You would also have been hearing of failures and burned up batteries or worse.
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Old 10-14-2019, 05:21 PM   #7
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I bought four BattleBorn 100 amp batteries about two years ago and they've been hooked up to the converter, battery charger, that came with my 2013 Arctic Fox 27 – 5L all this time. I'm a full timer that boondocks most of the time so my batteries are normally charged by my solar panels and solar controller. But when I'm hooked up to shore power the BattleBorn batteries are being charged by the Arctic Fox factory charger 24/7 and I've never had any problems with the BattleBorn batteries and hope I never do because my life revolves around them.

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Old 10-14-2019, 05:33 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by EJ_Clemson View Post
Thank you... I agree, the last thing I want to do is constantly remember to look at my battery capacity and then flip my breaker on or off. That is exactly what I'm trying to avoid by using a transfer switch.

Here is the charger on their website.
https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...cement-pd4060/

I may just try to call them and get a different opinion.
Seems they make two different 60 amp chargers for LI. One just 14.6 volts and one with 3 stage charger "charge wizard"
Look at the last paragraph.
https://www.progressivedyn.com/conve...-instructions/
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Old 10-14-2019, 06:59 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by jcussen View Post
Seems they make two different 60 amp chargers for LI. One just 14.6 volts and one with 3 stage charger "charge wizard"
Look at the last paragraph.
https://www.progressivedyn.com/conve...-instructions/
Thanks for the help guys, but with all do respect, I can't find any info that the CSV is for lithium iron batteries, hence the "LI" absence. I can't find a single mention of lithium iron batteries for this charger. It will boost at 14.4 to 90% but then back down. Im pretty sure this is just a liquid acid replacement charger.

Progressive dynamics even lists lithium iron replacement chargers here https://www.progressivedyn.com/lithi...acement-units/
and CSV's aren't mentioned.

I called battle born and left a message. We'll see. I also haven't heard of anyone having problems, but then again, these batteries haven't been out all that long. Im sure I just got a generic answer.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:11 PM   #10
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Lithium ion batteries don't live as long fully charged , 20 to 80% is their best operating range. 60% is their best storage range. Lithium iron are very different in that regard. But no lithium batteries like to be baked on a charger, it damages them.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Lithium ion batteries don't live as long fully charged , 20 to 80% is their best operating range. 60% is their best storage range. Lithium iron are very different in that regard. But no lithium batteries like to be baked on a charger, it damages them.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:51 PM   #12
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Lithium ion batteries don't live as long fully charged , 20 to 80% is their best operating range. 60% is their best storage range. Lithium iron are very different in that regard. But no lithium batteries like to be baked on a charger, it damages them.
Title should say Lithium IRON. Not sure how to edit it.
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudfrog View Post
Sounds ridiculously crazy to me!

There's no way I'd have a system like that because I know I would not be able, would not even try, to constantly keep up the level of charge the batteries had. I'd forget and leave the charger on too long or vice versa, forget to turn it on when needed.

Could there be some miscommunication going on here? If not, then selling this as an RV charger is misleading to say the least. A good RV charger should not have to be manually cycled on and off to keep from overcharging the batteries.
Old, very old outdated Technology for a new battery charger.
Obsolete many years ago.
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:14 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by HJLowell View Post
Old, very old outdated Technology for a new battery charger.
Obsolete many years ago.
What are you saying? The charger I'm speaking of is old technology? I just want to clarify.
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