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Old 01-25-2010, 11:28 PM   #309
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Yeah Gary, I'm with ya! Personally, I like to "lolligag around", taking my time to see everything. But not everyone can do that, or wants to, and that's okay. Basically, I'm for free speech and members of a community expressing their individual views; and I don't get why anyone needs to get defensive. I mean, we're all sharing, right? Hey, I'm thinking that looks like one of the lakes on Century Drive, maybe Lava? I suppose it's a long shot, but it sure looks familiar to me. Nice shot. Love those lakes, fish 'em a lot.
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:42 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary - K7GLD View Post
What do YOU have in your RVing travel photo scrapbook to show folks wondering what RVing travel is all about?
I have THIS from a beautiful little CG in KY (& NO, the photo is not color corrected. That was the actual sunset we saw outside our coach's windshield).

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Old 01-26-2010, 04:06 AM   #311
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Gary I do agree with you.

It seems, reading through all these posts that there is a VERY small minority that seemed to feel they needed to respond on the 'Defensive' I now wonder if they are suddenly come up with a concience?

The responses speak for themselves I feel.

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Old 01-26-2010, 09:08 AM   #312
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I now wonder if they are suddenly come up with a concience?

Naaaaaa just dont want to get kicked out
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Old 01-26-2010, 09:26 AM   #313
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Gary, Willey B,

Both of you have valid points. Isn't it great that we live in a country that everyone can express ther own views? As for me, my Good Sam Chapter doesn't frequent Wall Mart parking lots of public campgrounds. We instead take advantage of the state parks and federal parks. We enjoy the quiet and seeeing wildlife. So you see, there are other views on the right way to use your RV. Ours is sort of a combination of both your view points. " Different strokes"
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:13 AM   #314
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First my apology to Gary for the never understanding remark, it was uncalled for and should have been phrased in a non personal way.
Ok for the sake of discussion, will someone tell me what advantage or positive experience I'd have by checking into a campground instead of overnight parking at a parking lot. Feeling rested and generous this morning lets say camped between the hours of 5PM and 9AM the following morning.
I rarely get out of a Wally lot for less than $50

Click--> Click-->
This was from a little hidden nook off the highway Lake Superior there was a Resort by the beach hard to see it was pretty high up Click-->


Now it's hard to compare this outpost to a campground, yep it has a pool and we were served our noon time and evening meals every day. Didn't have to cook one meal in the week we were there the RV is kind of hidden by the willow tree
Click--> and another little stop over Click--> Click--> Click-->
So you see I can put up lots of pictures too, we don't live in the parking lots and do see the sights but in any case if we're not RV'ing that's OK because we do enjoy what we do
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:35 AM   #315
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RIGHT ON! Keep repeating... 10% will never get it... or choose not to!
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Old 01-26-2010, 01:25 PM   #316
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Gary, Willey B,

Both of you have valid points. Isn't it great that we live in a country that everyone can express ther own views? As for me, my Good Sam Chapter doesn't frequent Wall Mart parking lots of public campgrounds. We instead take advantage of the state parks and federal parks. We enjoy the quiet and seeeing wildlife. So you see, there are other views on the right way to use your RV. Ours is sort of a combination of both your view points. " Different strokes"
Hi StStg1, well sir you won't find me knocking about the way you use and enjoy your RV, the more power to you.
Speaking of wild life here's a shot of a bunny taken in the city Calgary AB. and just before that there was a Jackrabbit coming down the sidewalk, and a one of a Pelican in Saskatoon SK certainly a long way from the ocean, just blew my mind
Click-->

Click-->

Cheers
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:51 PM   #317
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I will go first on abuse. Yes dumping of tanks is abuse ...
I certainly hope we're all in agreement on this. But there are recorded instances of RVers dumping tanks into storm sewers in parking lots. If we need to dump our tanks, there are several websites with listings of dump stations, both public & private, and both free & for a fee.

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...but all else is open to interpretation.
I agree, but after dealing with this topic on nearly a daily basis for several years, I think the range of interpretation should be pretty narrow.

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My views. Slides out if room, jacks down if no damage, ...
Yes -- slides, if extended, should be extended over a curb where vehicles or pedestrians will neither run into them nor be obstructed by them.

The question on jacks is whether or not they'll leave indentations in an asphalt lot. I do what many other RVers do, and I recommend it: carry plywood squares to put down under your jacks to protect the surface.

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...generator running as needed so long as muffled. ...
I think that generator use also depends on who's next door. If the parking lot is in an all-retail or light industrial area, there's probably no problem with a generator. If there are residences nearby, then we need to be considerat of them -- and there may also be local noise ordinances that come into play. A few Walmarts are reported as specifying no use of generators.

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As to awing, chairs, and barbecue I feel that you have now crossed the line as you have moved to an outside activity that resembles camping not just spending the night.
And there's the crux of the entire issue. Overnight Parking is not camping, it's parking. If we want to do all of the outdoor things that you do in a campground, then we should be in a campground. If we're in a parking lot, then we should be doing what a parking lot is made for -- parking.

There are also certain places where Overnight RV Parking is allowed but use of slides or jacks is prohibited. In at least two states, for example, Overnight RV Parking is allowed in rest areas, while camping is prohibited. Law enforcement agencies in those two states draw the distinction this way: If you're parked, all you need to do in order to leave is start the engine release the brake, and put the RV in gear. If you have to do anything more than that -- roll up an awning, bring in a slide, raise jacks, put away a BBQ or lawn furniture -- then you were not parking, you were camping, and you get a ticket.
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Old 01-26-2010, 10:36 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Gary - K7GLD View Post
Truth be known, and if RVing folks would be totally honest with themselves and others on the parking lot RV issue, it largely boils down to this simple short statement from the above:

QUOTE
and don't really want to pay
END QUOTE
If you're going to quote me, please don't quote out of context in a way that changes my meaning.

What I really wrote was:

QUOTE
and don't really want to pay for campground amenities that I won't need or use.
END QUOTE

There's a big difference between "I don't want to pay [implied: for anything] and "I don't want to pay for things I don't want or need." I'm not a tightwad, and I'm not opposed to paying for things. On the other hand, I generally try not to waste my money.


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Seems far to many are so focused upon the final destination, that they totally ignore and disregard the JOURNEY,...
You seem to forget that not everyone is traveling for the same reasons.

Your statment assumes that every day was a long day of nothing but driving -- with no stops for sightseeing or anything else. That wasn't the case. I don't NEED to justify the reasoning behind my trip and where I stayed. Suffice it to say that I had to be in certain places at certain times, and that due to the nature of the trip, traveling by RV was our only alternative.

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I'd sell our own RV in a heartbeat, if that was all RVing was, or had to offer to us!
On the other hand, I'm very pleased that some of my business activity is RV-related, and that owning an RV makes it a pleasure to travel. In much of my travel, going by air is not an option, (especially when traveling with large and heavy musical equipment). When I have to the opportunity to travel the way you do, I do exactly that. When I have to travel my way, I will -- and I remain pleased that much of that travel is by RV.
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Old 01-26-2010, 10:46 PM   #319
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Heres a thought .. If you already know a particular Walmart allows overnighting and you have used the facility before should you still ask permission?
The policy at a given store can change. One day, Overnight RV Parking is allowed, and then some idiot dumps his sewer tank in the parking lot storm drain, and the next day the manager changes the store policy. It has happened more than once.


Walmart's corporate policy, quoted earlier in this thread, states that any RVer who wants to park overnight in a Walmart parking lot should obtain permission from store management before parking. There are no exceptions stated in the corporate policy.
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:01 AM   #320
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The policy at a given store can change. One day, Overnight RV Parking is allowed, and then some idiot dumps his sewer tank in the parking lot storm drain, and the next day the manager changes the store policy. It has happened more than once..
I respectfully suggest that many (a vast majority?) of the bans on RV parking have little to do with abusive actions by RVers. Some are based on organized campaigns in multiple locations to lobby local governments to stop RV parking for "safety reasons." Those lobbying the governments often have a financial interest in other places that the RVs might park if the the overnights in parking lots were prohibited. In others cases, significant numbers of "full timers" with RVs that are in significant disrepair are parked for extended times (weeks, months) in the same place. Many of the people in these RVs did not choose a full time lifestyle - it was thrust upon them because they had few other choices. There are also some bans that result from a handful of activists who hate the very sight of RVs and work to get them banned completely in cities and towns, not just parking lots. Lately, there are more "green" activists in this latter category. They hate RVs for the perceived larger "carbon footprint" and want them and many other vehicles banned altogether. My guess is that less than 20% of the overnight parking bans actually come because someone did something stupid or distastefull with an RV. That would include the range of things from dumping tanks to jacks down, awnings out, etc.

I'm very pleased that there are places like Wal-Mart that allow overnight parking although we've never parked in one. We have, on occasion, pulled into small motels with adequate parking space and asked permission to stay for a few hours. I've even run the jacks down (on dirt), the slide out and kept the genset on all night to run the A/C. I carefully explained our intentions when I asked permission.

It always boggles my mind that so many want to restrict my ability to get my vehicle off the road for a short period of time. We don't always plan every trip that we take completely. Even if we did, weather and traffic can plan havoc with anyone's plan. I much prefer leisurely driving but have driven 600-700 miles in a day because that is just the way that things worked out. At the end of those kinds of days, you often take what you can get. A couple of times that we found last minute CGs, I was totally exhausted and wouldn't have wanted to drive another 10 miles because I couldn't have done it safely. A Wal-Mart parking lot would have looked really good then.
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:23 AM   #321
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I respectfully suggest that many (a vast majority?) of the bans on RV parking have little to do with abusive actions by RVers.
My message that mentioned "black tank dumping" in a storm drain wasn't meant to cover the full topic of why parking bans are instituted. I agree than many Overnight RV Parking bans are due to other factors.

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Some are based on organized campaigns in multiple locations to lobby local governments to stop RV parking for "safety reasons." Those lobbying the governments often have a financial interest in other places that the RVs might park if the the overnights in parking lots were prohibited.
The National Association of RV Parks and Campgrounds (ARVC) is a major force in what you describe. One of the "services" they offer to their member campgrounds is to provide "model legislation" which local campgrounds can use when lobbying local governments to pass laws banning Overnight RV Parking. ARVC also has a publicly stated position against expenditures in state or national park campgrounds which would, in their words, "construct or expand visitor services and facilities that compete unfairly with the private sector."

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Originally Posted by chasfm11 View Post
In others cases, significant numbers of ... RVs that are in significant disrepair are parked for extended times ... There are also ... activists who hate the very sight of RVs and work to get them banned completely in cities and towns, not just parking lots. Lately, there are more "green" activists in this latter category. They hate RVs for the perceived larger "carbon footprint" and want them and many other vehicles banned altogether.
Yes, I agree with your assessment. These are all factors.

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Originally Posted by chasfm11 View Post
My guess is that less than 20% of the overnight parking bans actually come because someone did something stupid or distastefull with an RV. That would include the range of things from dumping tanks to jacks down, awnings out, etc.
I don't know about that percentage -- it may be a bit high, it may be a bit low, it may be right on the money.

Personally I think that the cause behind the majority of "No Overnight RV Parking" ordinances is lobbying by local campground owners. The 2009 bill that was proposed in the Maine legislature in is a perfect example. It was written at the behest of a campground owner, and it would have outlawed sleeping in an RV anyplace in Maine other than in a licensed campground. Fortunately, the bill was defeated.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:41 AM   #322
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The last time we stayed at Wally World the only that kept me awake was security driving by all night long. But I love the sound of a round jacking into a 12 gauge pump. Always makes me feel secure almost everywhere. LOL
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