Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > iRV2.com General Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-24-2015, 05:48 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Monkey Run's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sodus Point NY
Posts: 386
Water Heater Wiring; dealer mistake?

My 1999 Allegro Bus had the dual fuel water heater replaced under the original purchase contract ie all appliances etc to be in working order. Long story, but two major surgeries immediately after purchase along with quite a bit of work to do on this coach kept me off the road until recently.

The new unit is an Atwood GC10A-4E replacing an older, same brand model. No literature was supplied with this unit, so I went out on the internet to find some. The gas works fine, however, not the electric. After spending a few hours running down the problem it seems that the dealer did not install the new combined switch which is supplied with all of the replacement units, mine still has the single, individual switches. The instructions clearly state that this is wrong.

Gas works fine, switch on, fires up .
Electric has voltage from the old switch to the Zettler relay on the back side of the heater, however, no voltage from the relay to the heating element. Schematic shows 12 volt only feeding the new switch, which triggers the relay. There is the required yellow wire to the relay, however, due to the wind and rain I have not yet traced that to the front board. If that is working, activating the electric mode switch should trigger the relay, however near as I can tell, there is not a signal being sent to the control board from that older model switch.

Link to schematic: http://www.panther-rvproducts.com/me...ion%281%29.pdf

So now I have questions. Has anyone used the newer models with the old dual switch setup and had them work OK and if so, how do I fix this? Or, might the relay be bad?

Comments/advise appreciated, thank you!
__________________

__________________
Monkey Run is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-25-2015, 01:50 PM   #2
Registered User
 
mel s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Run View Post
My 1999 Allegro Bus had the dual fuel water heater replaced under the original purchase contract ie all appliances etc to be in working order. Long story, but two major surgeries immediately after purchase along with quite a bit of work to do on this coach kept me off the road until recently.
The new unit is an Atwood GC10A-4E replacing an older, same brand model. No literature was supplied with this unit, so I went out on the internet to find some. The gas works fine, however, not the electric. After spending a few hours running down the problem it seems that the dealer did not install the new combined switch which is supplied with all of the replacement units, mine still has the single, individual switches. The instructions clearly state that this is wrong.
Gas works fine, switch on, fires up .
Electric has voltage from the old switch to the Zettler relay on the back side of the heater, however, no voltage from the relay to the heating element. Schematic shows 12 volt only feeding the new switch, which triggers the relay. There is the required yellow wire to the relay, however, due to the wind and rain I have not yet traced that to the front board. If that is working, activating the electric mode switch should trigger the relay, however near as I can tell, there is not a signal being sent to the control board from that older model switch.
Link to schematic: http://www.panther-rvproducts.com/me...ion%281%29.pdf
So now I have questions. Has anyone used the newer models with the old dual switch setup and had them work OK and if so, how do I fix this? Or, might the relay be bad?
Comments/advise appreciated, thank you!
Monkey Run
If it's true that "the dealer did not install the new combined switch which is supplied with all of the replacement units", I suggest you take you Allegro Bus back to the dealer/installer and get everything you have coming, (including the literature he neglected to give you).
Mel
'96 Safari
__________________

__________________
mel s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2015, 02:47 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Starsekr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 340
Since I don't know your comfort level with electricity, please excuse me if I'm telling you stuff you already know. First check that the circuit breaker for the water heater is turned on. It was probably shut off when they worked on the controller.
Making the assumption you can get to the contol board with a volt meter, and have someone who will flip the switch on and off for you. Ground one side of voltmeter to Green 6. Set on Dc range at 20 volts or so.
1. Measure Voltage at Orange 1 on controller, old switch should put 12 volts on it when turned on. No 12 volts go to step 5.
2. Measure voltage at Yellow 2. Controller should send out 12 volts when signal from switch is 12 volts. No 12 volts, might be a bad controller.
3. Measure voltage at relay. Flip the Electric switch on and off. Yellow should have 12 volts. Measure at the green wire on relay. Should be "0" volts.
No 12 volts, its a wire problem. 12 volts on the green wire it's a ground problem. Check that the green really goes to ground. Physically trace it if you can.
4. Now this is gets a little trickier. It is an AC measurement, and can bite you badly, even unto death. Set the voltmeter to Ac and 200 Volts. Measure across the electric element. Should have 110-120 volts (when the electric switch is manipulated). If you have this, then the problem may be your element. If you do not have this then the problem may be in the relay or your AC wiring to the relay or from the element.
5. Back at the switch. Make sure the jumper is installed to supply 12 volts to both switches. Measure 12 volts on the other contact of the electric switch. 12 volts here and no 12 volts in step 1, wiring error at the controller. Look for wires there that aren't plugged in.
__________________
Jim and Valerie, 2005 Winnie Adventurer 37B, 2014 Subaru Forester Toad, hitches, brakes, anti-sways, autopilot, gourmet food on a Social Security budget.
"Wave as you go by."
Starsekr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2015, 09:54 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Monkey Run's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sodus Point NY
Posts: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsekr View Post
Since I don't know your comfort level with electricity, please excuse me if I'm telling you stuff you already know. First check that the circuit breaker for the water heater is turned on. It was probably shut off when they worked on the controller.
Making the assumption you can get to the contol board with a volt meter, and have someone who will flip the switch on and off for you. Ground one side of voltmeter to Green 6. Set on Dc range at 20 volts or so.
1. Measure Voltage at Orange 1 on controller, old switch should put 12 volts on it when turned on. No 12 volts go to step 5.
2. Measure voltage at Yellow 2. Controller should send out 12 volts when signal from switch is 12 volts. No 12 volts, might be a bad controller.
3. Measure voltage at relay. Flip the Electric switch on and off. Yellow should have 12 volts. Measure at the green wire on relay. Should be "0" volts.
No 12 volts, its a wire problem. 12 volts on the green wire it's a ground problem. Check that the green really goes to ground. Physically trace it if you can.
4. Now this is gets a little trickier. It is an AC measurement, and can bite you badly, even unto death. Set the voltmeter to Ac and 200 Volts. Measure across the electric element. Should have 110-120 volts (when the electric switch is manipulated). If you have this, then the problem may be your element. If you do not have this then the problem may be in the relay or your AC wiring to the relay or from the element.
5. Back at the switch. Make sure the jumper is installed to supply 12 volts to both switches. Measure 12 volts on the other contact of the electric switch. 12 volts here and no 12 volts in step 1, wiring error at the controller. Look for wires there that aren't plugged in.
Thanks for the finely detailed reply. I have done most of what you suggested, however, there is no 12 volt jumper between switches. That is the problem, this unit is made to run off the new dual switch setup, not the individual switches. I checked the yellow wire today, no 12 volt DC to trigger that relay. Going to call the dealer on Monday as Mel S suggested, but in no way am I driving a 200 mile round trip to have some idiot screw it up again. Will be insisting upon the parts, the manual and some compensation. I am the second owner of this coach, the original owner told me to get used to fixing it myself as the dealers won't do it to suit me. He was correct, reminds me of my boat experiences.
__________________
Monkey Run is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2015, 10:28 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
TEFFY's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Near BEAUMONT, TX.
Posts: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Run View Post
....I am the second owner of this coach, the original owner told me to get used to fixing it myself as the dealers won't do it to suit me. He was correct, reminds me of my boat experiences.
The difference between a sailboat and a MH is, the MH isn't in the water. If you read all of the cr@p on the net, each one has gobbs of stuff that you don't need but are very expensive.


.
__________________
Bob (RVM 27), now solo (3/26/16) with 3 cats, - Full timing during the summer
"Roughing It Smoothly" in a 1994 34' Allegro Bay DP
All of 190 horses but 11 MPG. 0 TO 60 in 62 sec. :flowers
TEFFY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2015, 10:37 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Monkey Run's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sodus Point NY
Posts: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEFFY View Post
The difference between a sailboat and a MH is, the MH isn't in the water. If you read all of the cr@p on the net, each one has gobbs of stuff that you don't need but are very expensive.


.
Certainly more than I need and my coach is a 1999. My current boat is a 1992, the last one was a 2008. I went backward in time to rid myself of the computers etc...
__________________
Monkey Run is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2015, 09:06 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Monkey Run's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sodus Point NY
Posts: 386
What fine service Atwood provides! The rep called me today after I had sent an email explaining the problem. He said that often times the old dual switches are retained and a third switch is added for the 12 volt element. That is a contradiction to their installation instructions, however. Regardless, I chased down the wiring based upon our conversation and there is no way this unit could work properly the way it was wired by the dealer.
__________________
Monkey Run is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 07:43 AM   #8
Registered User
 
mel s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Run View Post
What fine service Atwood provides! The rep called me today after I had sent an email explaining the problem. He said that often times the old dual switches are retained and a third switch is added for the 12 volt element. That is a contradiction to their installation instructions, however. Regardless, I chased down the wiring based upon our conversation and there is no way this unit could work properly the way it was wired by the dealer.
Monkey Run
I'm happy to hear that you finally discovered the problem with your "warranty replaced" water heater.

However that is something YOU should NOT have HAD TO DO.

I hope you are not going to let the dealer who installed your "warranty replacement water heater" GET AWAY WITH HIS "MISTAKE".

IMO if everyone would hold dealers and other RV service providers responsible for their all to often sloppy/unsatisfactory RV work... unsatisfactory RV work and repairs might not be so common.

Mel
'96 Safari
__________________
mel s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 08:41 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Monkey Run's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sodus Point NY
Posts: 386
I am going to call them today and see what happens but due to my surgeries and recovery time I doubt that I have a leg to stand on.
__________________

__________________
Monkey Run is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dealer, heat, heater, water, water heater, wiring



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water heater bypass not working and need to clean both systems Janelle12 Class A Motorhome Discussions 6 08-06-2015 10:42 PM
Water heater issue 2002 Itasca horizon 39QP bruce Dixon Class A Motorhome Discussions 6 04-17-2015 06:21 PM
Atwood Water Heater Problems denochs RV Systems & Appliances 5 04-02-2014 06:50 AM
Water Heater slhicks Thor Industries Owner's Forum 10 03-27-2014 09:14 PM
Hot water heater not sparking smittythebea RV Systems & Appliances 6 07-26-2013 09:57 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.