Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > iRV2.com General Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-19-2015, 08:51 AM   #1
Senior Member
Commercial Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,478
What is a tire "Blowout"

The term "Blowout" is used quite a lot on RV forums. The problem is that to many people, any tire failure for any reason is a 'Blowout".

I recently posted an explanation along with pictures of the physical evidence used by tire engineers to learn the cause of a catastrophic tire failure. If you don't understand why the failure occurred your corrective actions may not prevent a re-occurrence.

The post in question was done in the 5th Wheel thread but the facts apply to all types of tires so I am posting the link here as some may not visit the 5th wheel threads as they don't own such a unit.

If a tire suffers a failure in the sidewall that extends around the tire many times it is what tire engineers call a "Run Low Flex Failure" or sidewall blowout, which occurs when a tire looses most of its air over a period of a few minutes while traveling at highway speeds.

Hope this is helpful.
__________________

__________________
Retired Design & Quality Tire Eng. Read my tire blog RVTireSafety.NET to learn more about RV tires, valves & wheels. Read THIS post on why Tires Fail
Tireman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-19-2015, 11:19 AM   #2
Registered User
 
mel s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,777
IMO a 'blowout" is when a tire losses all of it's air with a bang.
(Any other air loss is a "leak").
__________________

__________________
mel s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 11:28 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
BFlinn181's Avatar
 
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 16,252
I'd think a blowout is a rapid loss of tire integrity. In a dual tire or trailer, a slow leak or puncture might become a rapid loss of tire integrity before the driver realizes it has happened.
__________________

Bob & Donna
'98 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager DP being pushed by a '00 Beetle TDI
BFlinn181 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 12:40 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,825
To me a slow lead that leave you feeling low when you check it is a "Flat Tire"

A Blow out is sudden dedcompression of the tire.. may be accomponied by a lout BANG. if it is a 60 PSI Bicycle tire it will sound like a rifle shot.
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 05:08 PM   #5
Senior Member
Commercial Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,478
I understand your comments but the variety of definitions points out the problem.

If I were to have the following sequence of events occur what would be the appropriate action to prevent to problem from happening again?

Assume proper inflation to be 60 psi and I am traveling down the highway at 58 to 63 mph (speed limit is posted as 65.
The tire picks up a nail and air start leaking out. Five minutes later the pressure is down to 15 psi and the sidewall temperature ranges from 350F to 450F+. The body cord has lost 70% to 90% of its strength so a tear occurs in the mid sidewall. The remaining air escapes in less than one second and the tire is now in shreds as the driver looks for a place to pull off the road.

As far as the driver knows the tire was fully inflated up to the moment when all the remaining air escaped. While rapid air loss from 15 psi to zero is not as violent as from 60 psi, if the driver is not expecting it it will still seem like a big explosion as the RV also will be shaking violently.

If the driver simply looked at the tire and discovered it was made in Indiana he might incorrectly blame the poor workmanship in the tire for the failure, so simply changing to tires made in Canada would have no affect on the outcome of the tire leak,

The reality is that the high temperature leaves physical evidence that establishes the fact that the tire was run at highway speed while extremely under-iniflated.

The proper and informative term to use is Run Low Flex Failure.

The definition of a loss of 20% of the inflation air being a "flat tire" is to establish a point where driving on the tire would be doing structural damage.

Using incorrect terminology can be very misleading.

If we were to look at a person that had died due to claimed "heart failure", what might you suggest to prevent a recurrence?
Maybe he should have exercised more or paid more attention to his diet.

But what if the "heart failure" had been caused by a 45 cal bullet?

See how incorrect reporting of the condition can lead to an incorrect diagnosis with the potential of the "corrective action" really being of no benefit at all.
__________________
Retired Design & Quality Tire Eng. Read my tire blog RVTireSafety.NET to learn more about RV tires, valves & wheels. Read THIS post on why Tires Fail
Tireman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 05:38 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
BFlinn181's Avatar
 
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 16,252
Seems to me all you're doing is making a case for a TPM system. Regardless if it deflates slowly to 15 psi or immediately goes from 60 psi to 0, as a driver my reactions need to be the same. If it's a front tire, hit the accelerator to maintain control and pull over with no sudden, violent steering.

The question on whether it was a slow leak - failure, or a blow out failure, that can be dealt with by the tire manufacturer and/or insurance. My immediate concern is getting stopped safely, out of traffic.
__________________

Bob & Donna
'98 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager DP being pushed by a '00 Beetle TDI
BFlinn181 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 05:50 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
WeatherTodd's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
...
The proper and informative term to use is Run Low Flex Failure.

The definition of a loss of 20% of the inflation air being a "flat tire" is to establish a point where driving on the tire would be doing structural damage.

Using incorrect terminology can be very misleading.

If we were to look at a person that had died due to claimed "heart failure", what might you suggest to prevent a recurrence?
Maybe he should have exercised more or paid more attention to his diet.

But what if the "heart failure" had been caused by a 45 cal bullet?

See how incorrect reporting of the condition can lead to an incorrect diagnosis with the potential of the "corrective action" really being of no benefit at all.

um when the air goes from 150, 100, 75 or 40 to zero in an instant...thats a blow out. If you want to play semantics... have at it.

Ive yet to meet any sane person call a fatal gunshot to a heart as "heart failure". However you can start your campaign on correct terminology with newscasts... they like to use incorrect terms.
__________________
WeatherTodd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 05:57 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,825
In that example of a slow lead leading to a low tire and sudden explosive decompression of the remaining pressure>>> That is a blowout.

If you look at your tire and due to a slow leak it is low: Low tire
If you look at it and it's flat: Flat tire
IF you are driving and there is a SUDDEN LOSS of pressure: Blow out

Does not matter if it was low before the blow. it is a blowout.
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 08:20 PM   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
Gary RVRoamer's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Silver Springs, FL. USA
Posts: 18,096
Despite how tire engineers may need to split hairs when determining the cause of failures, I think any vehicle driver (or passenger) is going to call a sudden and total loss of tire air a "blowout". It's certainly true the problem may have begun a few minutes, or even a few days, before hand, but if it went unnoticed until the catastrophic air loss occurred, it's till a "blow out" in any layman's view. I don't think any educational campaign is gonna change that.

What we may be able to do is to educate motorists that blowouts can have several different causes and many of them begin well before the big bank happens. Maybe we can also convince them that few blowouts have much do with the tire brand or design, or even road hazards, and that a lot them are related to pressure, load and speed factors.
__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition
Home is in the Ocala Nat'l Forest near Ocala, FL
Summers in Black Mountain, NC
Gary RVRoamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 09:00 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Ray,IN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 13,712
Thanks for the information and education Bob. I think I read that on your blog too. Your knowledge and experience is of value to irv2.com members and guests.
__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA 1SG, retired;PPA,Good Sam Life member,FMCA."We the people are the rightful masters of both the Congress and the Courts - not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution. "Abraham Lincoln"
Ray,IN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2015, 07:46 AM   #11
IC2
Senior Member
 
IC2's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,885
Ahhhh, I really love engineering terms (best known as CYA). No disrespect to the OP as his set of terms are different then most of us have for a tire failure. This thread reminded me of a certain situation where my company sent out warning plates to be attached to the turbine compartment doors of a particular very large size gas turbine and is a warning that 'sudden over pressurization' might cause those several hundred pound pieces to become detached and cause grievous harm to ones body, even death. That was penned by engineers and of course needed to be endorsed by our fine lawyers.

This is the opposite in that a sudden air loss by a tire is a DEpressuization and what is known as a blowout to most of us. That sudden depressurization can also cause grievous harm to life, limb and/or property.

Thanks Tireman. Your information was a fine description of what really happens in a 'sudden' tire failure
__________________
Dave W along with my DW, Susan and our poodlepups, Callie & Molly,2011 Ford F250 6.7 CCLB, 5er Hitch Option w/B&W Hitch,,Ride Rite air bags, 2014 Montana High Country 343RL (38')
IC2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2015, 08:18 AM   #12
Senior Member
Commercial Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFlinn181 View Post
Seems to me all you're doing is making a case for a TPM system. Regardless if it deflates slowly to 15 psi or immediately goes from 60 psi to 0, as a driver my reactions need to be the same. If it's a front tire, hit the accelerator to maintain control and pull over with no sudden, violent steering.

The question on whether it was a slow leak - failure, or a blow out failure, that can be dealt with by the tire manufacturer and/or insurance. My immediate concern is getting stopped safely, out of traffic.
The difference between having a slow leak or some freak occurrence when the tire goes from 100% inflated to zero in an explosive loss of air is that with a slow leak the driver is given the opportunity to smoothly and safely pull over to a safe location and stop. With sufficient advance warning this might give you a couple of minutes to find the safe location in the next mile. If this is the case and the driver has stopped before the tire is damaged there is a good chance the tire could be saved $$ with a proper repair and of course there would be no coach damage $$$$ to contend with. With the instantaneous air loss there is no time to react and we all have to hope the driver can maintain control of the vehicle and there is a place to safely pull off the road in the next couple hundred feet.

RE your corrective action and the insurance co. I too often read about people's plans to avoid a recurrence but seldom hear then express an understanding of the "why" the failure occurred in the first place. This kind of is like the saying "Those that fail to learn from history are condemned to re-live it. "
If we are talking about a tire failure it menas "Those that fail to learn the real cause of the failure are condemned to re-live it. "
__________________
Retired Design & Quality Tire Eng. Read my tire blog RVTireSafety.NET to learn more about RV tires, valves & wheels. Read THIS post on why Tires Fail
Tireman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2015, 08:24 AM   #13
Senior Member
Commercial Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2 View Post
Ahhhh, I really love engineering terms (best known as CYA). No disrespect to the OP as his set of terms are different then most of us have for a tire failure. This thread reminded me of a certain situation where my company sent out warning plates to be attached to the turbine compartment doors of a particular very large size gas turbine and is a warning that 'sudden over pressurization' might cause those several hundred pound pieces to become detached and cause grievous harm to ones body, even death. That was penned by engineers and of course needed to be endorsed by our fine lawyers.

PS were the pictures seen in the link of the first post of any value? Need more examples?

This is the opposite in that a sudden air loss by a tire is a DEpressuization and what is known as a blowout to most of us. That sudden depressurization can also cause grievous harm to life, limb and/or property.

Thanks Tireman. Your information was a fine description of what really happens in a 'sudden' tire failure
Thanks, I think
"Sudden" is what the driver feels when the first indication is the loud "Bang" and a jerk of the steering.
If there was a slow leak going on for say 5 or 10 minutes, the tire "knew" what was happening and it wasn't a "sudden" failure but slow build to an exciting finish
__________________
Retired Design & Quality Tire Eng. Read my tire blog RVTireSafety.NET to learn more about RV tires, valves & wheels. Read THIS post on why Tires Fail
Tireman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2015, 08:47 AM   #14
Registered User
 
mel s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,777
Me thinks anyone who has ever had a tire blowout knows what a "blowout" is.. and that anyone who has never had a blowout will know what a blowout is when they have one...(regardless of the reason the tire blew out).
Mel
'96 Safari
__________________

__________________
mel s is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anyone towing a Subaru ever had a flat tire? theroc Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 5 07-06-2015 03:30 PM
Excessive Tire Wear Mwoodofd Entegra Owner's Forum 98 07-06-2015 06:45 AM
Irregular tire wear RedT Freightliner Motorhome Chassis Forum 1 06-04-2015 06:20 PM
A big THANK YOU for the tire monitors! dkperez 5th Wheel Discussion 15 04-30-2014 11:58 AM
Thor tire stems Rv artisan Thor Industries Owner's Forum 20 09-21-2013 12:44 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.