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Old 04-13-2014, 01:20 PM   #71
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Clear choice isn't a dealership. This is a guy in Vancouver BC, who's in partnership with a guy in CA. They buy RV's at auction and then sell them where-is, as-is on ebay. It's a terrible way to buy an RV, but Clear Choice isn't doing anything wrong. Clear choice is fine as long as you are willing to look before you bid, or arrive willing to accept what you bought. If you're expecting support after the sale, these are not the guys to see. I bought my first RV from them and got exactly what I paid for...a used RV at a great price. I got VERY lucky because it was a good unit. Were I in the same boat today, I'd line up the money before the bid and go there prepared to come back empty-handed if the RV wasn't worth it. You can bid and take delivery right away, and these guys are always delighted to move RVs...it's the business they are in. This is for sophisticated buyers that need a cheap used RV and no frills. Shaun isn't an angel, but he's also not in CA and has never seen most of these RVs. I found him ok to deal with. He's been doing this a long time and I do not believe he's in business to intentionally fleece anyone, but he does occasionally have some units for sale that are junk. Caveat Emptor!

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Old 04-14-2014, 09:04 PM   #72
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I purchased a 2000 Country Coach Intrigue from a dealer in N Fort Myers FL. The lady walked around the motor home with the phone in her hand talking to me and explaining how nothing was wrong with the exception of a $1.40 knob was missing in the bathroom. They said it would go in the shop to insure everything was working properly. They never checked anything. They didn't even clean it. So far I have approximately $10,000 in repairs. Very unethical people.

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Old 02-01-2015, 08:56 PM   #73
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PPL in Houston

I'm a first time buyer so I thought I would share my story. I have been shopping for a couple of months. Came across a deal at PPL in Houston. Call the salesman Peter Sam to discuss the MH. PPL is a consignment dealer but Peter tells me the Motor home is in Very Good condition. But he also tells me that I should pay $442 (non refundable) to PPL to have them inspect the MH for me before I buy. I agreed because I think that is a wise idea. Peter makes me put down $500 to hold the MH for a week. I send the paperwork a week in advance, tell him I'll be down on Saturday 1/31 at 0900 and that I had made arrangements to travel. We get some paperwork back from their sales manager Terry I think we are set. We arrived on site at 0900 and the receptionist asks "what are you here for". I give her my name and show her the paperwork. She looks on her list and says "I don't have any appointments for you". Then she sticks her list in my face and says "do you see your name on this list?". She calls back on a walkie talkie and says "a customer needs to speak to Peter cause he thinks he has an appointment". The response is "Peter isn't here today". She then tries to contact the sales manager and they weren't there either. Then she tells us to Sit down in the TV room. About 40 minutes goes by and a nice man named Antwon helped us. He asked if I had gotten any results from the inspection. I said "no". He said he could not find the paperwork for the inspection and that the owner had not paid his bill to PPL so "you may not be able to take the coach today". I said "you are closed tomorrow what will we do?". There was no answer except "I'll be back". He comes back about 30 minutes later and says "have you seen the coach". We said no.. on the way to see the coach he says "we had a hard time starting it and the generator batteries are dead". Well once we get to see the coach.. WOW what a piece of crap. Now I understand some things are going to need to be replaced on a 2001 model but this thing was incredible. Anyway my wife and I were trying to see the positive side and still considering the coach because we were stranded. Antwon said he could do the demonstration so for $442 he showed us the coach. I received no report and basically he just walked around the coach showed me the tires, generator, opened up the storage bins, started the AC, etc. Then he says let's take it for a drive. The coach weighs 20K unloaded and has a max payload of 26K. It had a 5.9L ISB Cummings at 275 hp. When I got out on the highway I could barely get to 60MPH with the pedal on the floor. The steering wheel was wobbling all over and when we would go up any little bit of a grade the speed went down. I asked about the economy switch on the dash and he said that was what was causing it to not perform well. I switched it off and really didn't see any difference. When we got back I said "I don't want this coach". The answer was "OK" and I got my $500 deposit back. We had to hustle to get a rental car since it was about 2pm and we were stuck. That is another story in itself. But basically I feel like they completely misrepresented the coach because it was in "poor" condition vs "very good" and they never did an inspection on it. I am now out over a thousand dollars just to look at that piece of crap. I'm not happy but I don't know what to do. I thought about filing a complaint because they never really inspected the motorhome for the money that I sent them. It's a mess.
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Old 02-02-2015, 04:56 AM   #74
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Seabear, I think the only mistake you made is letting them do the "inspection"...it should always be an independent party.

In my opinion, not asking specific questions leads to all kinds of trouble. Having an independant person look at the rig before you travel is a must unless you are willing to eat your own travel time there and back.

I looked at 3 Class A's before I bought. The first one was 2 states away but I was near there on business. It was a consignment and really was in decent shape, but the exterior was so sun bleached and deteriorated I passed on it. Photo's almost never ever show how bad an exterior of a MH can be....older rigs all look the same in a photo.

The second one was 1900 miles away and at a CW. I put a deposit on it, then I had a friend who lived near there go look at it for me before I committed to travel. Again the rig was pretty much in-line with what the salesman was telling me, but it had the beginnings of delam issues that my buddy found during his inspection that caused me to cancel the deal. CW had my deposit back to me within a few days.

The last one was 700 miles away at Scott Motorcoach RV Center in Lakewood NJ. My non specific questions to them was on a 1-10 give me an over all condition of the interior and exterior. I realize that that can lead to misinterpretation, but I prefaced this by telling the salesman that I just don't want any glaring surprises. He said, "outside is a 7(faded overall), and inside is a 10".

My specific questions were:

-is there any de-lam of the exterior filon panels?
-is there or has there ever been evidence of a roof leak? Window leak?
-what is the date code on the tires?
-is there any rust on the undercarriage other than what would be considered normal flash rust?
-does the generator start and run with no issues?
-is there any significant shrinking of the rubber window seals?
-do all the appliances work(refer, a/c, water pump, furnace)
-does the dash air work?
-are there any cracks/damage in the shower pan?
-does MH engine start run and drive normally?
-does the transmission shift normally?
-are there any fluid leaks from the engine or drivetrain?

I put these questions in a text or email and let them respond in the same. That way I had at least some type of documentation. I put a deposit down with a stipulation that I could back out based on the results of an inspection. I also asked that as part of the deal that they change out all the old brake fluid with new fluid and bleed the lines. Older coaches almost never get a brake fluid change which can cause all kinds of braking issues. Then I was real close to hiring a RV guy that was about an hour and a half away from them to go do an inspection for $250(I found him by just googling around the area for mobile rv repairs).

I then looked at air fares and could fly there for just over $200, so I decided to throw the dice. If the coach failed my eyes-on inspection, then I was completely prepared to catch a flight home and eat the cost. The dealer sent a guy to pick me up from the Philly airport...1.5 hr away. When I arrived, the coach was up on the rack getting the brake fluid changed so I got to take a close look at the underbelly. Once back on the lot I did a walk around, climbed on the roof and inspected the interior. There were no major surprises. The air bags were down to 10 psi, so I had them pump them up and assumed there was a leak...no biggie.

The test drive went fine so, I paid the pre-negotiated price we had agreed to when I put the deposit down and drove the 700 miles home. The chassis battery died and needed replacing on that trip and the air bags went flat again(expected) and the front sway bar bushings disintegrated.

All in all, for an 18 year old Coach I think that Scott's represented it very well and I would do business with them again.

I think as a buyer we have certain responsibilities to assure what we see on-line is what we get. We just can't totally take any strangers word for condition and pay based on photo's alone. The only way to assure what you see in photo's and are told is to have another pair of eyes do an inspection prior to committing to anything other than a deposit. That inspection(whether you have it done or do it yourself) is the cost of doing business no matter if you buy the rig or not.
1996 Fleetwood Flair 22' (aka Stumpy) Chevy 454
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Old 02-02-2015, 05:05 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by LDP243 View Post
We should have a sticky for guys like these. long story made short . I bought our MH from Clear Choice Motors out of Colton Ca., my bad but too late for me now its a done deal. lots of LIES from these guys. I purchased a Service policy from them and canceled it because the mileage was wrong on the Coach and the policy too ,and it was already out of warranty . the Insurance gave my refund to CC motors, they kept saying for a month that my check would be mailed out next week but never sent it, and now they will not respond at all to my calls or E-MAILS
Contact the Department of Insurance and contact the DMV in your state. Get your proof together.

Both of those agencies have strong punitive powers. The dealer can quickly lose his license to sell over these types of issues.

A dealer cannot misrepresent mileage or keep Insurance Company refunds.

You will be amazed at how fast your issues are resolved.
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Old 02-02-2015, 10:54 PM   #76
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Unethical RV Dealers

I have heard people make jokes about used car salesmen forever. I have never seen more unethical people selling RV's. I wouldn't trust any of them. I had a lady walking around the motorhome looking for anything that could be wrong with the motorhome and she couldn't find anything wrong. When it was delivered, it had approximately $10,000 dollars worth of repairs, plus the paint is terrible. Go and see it or don't buy it.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:53 PM   #77
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Sadly, PPL Motorhomes in Houston has been nick-named "The Water Damage Graveyard" by my family. We've been out there many times to look at Class A DPs... but each and every time we go there we end up leaving, very disappointed.

If you're looking for a coach that is $55k or less, you're pretty much guaranteed to have water damage somewhere. We saw cracked tiles throughout one coach where the entire floor was leaning in towards the passenger side (water damaged floors).... another beautiful coach that had almost hidden water damage in one of the walls -- only obvious once you start poking at the walls, which were soft (my wife also asked me why the outside wall was bulging in that area)... and even more coaches with water damage and dry rot around slides, wall/floor joins, and everywhere else. If you're like me and you hate water damage... it's not a pretty place to be.

Even some of the pricy units had some water damage. But, to give PPL some credit -- they do price the coaches fairly... so if it price seems REALLY good, there is a reason for it. And don't let anyone fool you -- the sales staff KNOW about the damage in the units... they're the ones who suggest the pricing for them.

The thing that ticks me off about PPL is that they "get paid five ways'. First, they charge a seller a flat fee (close to $2k) to put the coach on the consignment lot. They then want to charge an extra fee to the seller... to perform a complete inspection, take photos, and detail the unit for show.

That's where I get ticked off. You see -- they charge the seller for an "inspection"... claiming that is one of the ways they can properly figure out the best price for the coach to sell quickly. So... if they already did the inspection... why are they wanting to charge you the same amount for the exact inspection they ALREADY performed for the seller?

Truth be told... they probably don't do that much of an inspection. I have yet to find any consignment shop or dealer that has EVER done a proper inspection as they like to claim. What a crock.

Anyway... So... they get a flat fee (if the coach sells, or not)... they charge the seller an inspection fee... they charge who knows how many different potential buyers an "inspection fee" (for the same inspection they didn't go countless times before)... and if the unit sells, they make 10% of the selling price... and upon delivery of the coach, they try to sell the buyer on another inspection and detail job... for a fee.

I'm not saying that PPL is a horrible place to get an RV... you just have to know what you're getting into, and you have to realize that most people who send their coaches off to a consignment lot are getting rid of it for a reason. Selling a coach isn't horribly difficult. But, if you KNOW that your coach has soft walls and water damage, it would be pretty hard for someone like you or me to face-to-face lie to someone about the condition of the rig if they asked (personally, I'd be up-front in the ad, but that's me)... and you know as well as I that if you advertise soft walls and water damage, you're chances of selling that thing are very low. So, some people like to hide behind a consignment shop, where they don't have to lie to the buyer face-to-face and let the sales staff handle all the lies for them. I guess it allows them to sleep better at night.

Now I'm not saying that the PPL people are all crooks, or that you shouldn't go there to look -- we love going there to look… and sometimes a great unit comes along (you just have to be fast, as great units don’t last long — but the ones that have been out there for a couple months… well… there’s a reason why they’re still there). Just know what you're looking for before you go, and don't expect any honest answers from the staff unless you pay the $400 bribe for them to tell you what they already know but pretended they didn't.

One thing I LOVE about PPL is that you walk in, sign a form, and off you go to roam the lot. You can spend all day in one unit, or 10 seconds in each and every one they have. Zero pressure from anyone.

The down side to all this freedom is that the units see a lot of abuse from people poking and prodding or trying to open things they don’t know how to open properly. Also, PPL parks the rigs WAY too close to each other… so you eventually get a bunch of morons who have opened a bunch of basement doors, didn’t close them properly, and the doors are now wide open scraping up against the coach next to it… and when people are getting in and out of the rig, since it’s not on jacks, it sways a little causing those basement doors to get scraped up and to also scrap up the rig next to it.

People also leave vents open, lights on, and pretty much everything else you shouldn’t mess with. That’s why most of the units have dead batteries — inconsiderate people who switch stuff on and never turn it off or close things behind them. No respect for anyone else’s property. Slackers.

Our number one rule about shopping at PPL, or anyplace else that has used RVs for sale: wait for bad weather. My favorite time to shop for used RVs is usually on day 2 of a really, really bad rain storm. You’ll know right off the bat if there are leaks in the unit. I take my shoes off, crawl around on my hands and knees, and check it all out.

We’ve captured some very interesting footage from our last couple of trips out to PPL. On the last trip we almost found a couple winners… but there was always a bit old water damage surprise that I eventually uncovered. Oh well… makes for some interesting video footage if nothing else.
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Old 06-13-2015, 10:42 PM   #78
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I have an '05 Providence, purchased on consignment in 2008 from Mike Thompson in Fountain Valley, CA. The sales staff seemed to "be your friend." They are no different than any other auto salesperson. It's all about making the sale, nothing else. I admit that I was not prepared for the purchase of a diesel pusher, but I have been prepared for purchase of a new or used auto. The spouse did influence our decision. I think we have been lucky.
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Old 06-15-2015, 03:47 AM   #79
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RV Kountry North Ft Myers Fl the Worst

I purchased a 2000 Country Coach Intrigue from RV Kountry in N Ft Myers Fl. They were the most unethical company I have ever heard of. They lied about everything. Where I made my mistake is working with the attorney general instead of filing a lawsuit against them immediately. I tried to let the attorney general work with them but they must have been experienced in knowing they didn't have any power against them and were unwilling to work with them. I charged $5000 on my credit card and disputed it through the credit card company and won the dispute. They filed a lawsuit in their state and I didn't show up and they won by default. File in your state if you buy online. The BBB is a JOKE. After I reported them they still received an "A" rating. I called them to ask why, no answer.
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Old 06-15-2015, 06:37 AM   #80
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I've read through the 8, I believe, pages of problems that folks have had while buying a used RV and really find it difficult to believe that so many are gullible enough to believe a used RV, car or whatever dealer. First of all, the unit that is on any lot is one of many and if it looks good, it is in that sales person's estimation. He can't possibly have intimate knowledge of each and every vehicle on his lot unless it was his over a long term. All he wants to do is move it as fast as possible so he can get his commission check - and that check and others for units he has sold is often all he is paid by that dealership. What it boils down to is that you, the purchaser of that used RV need to either have enough knowledge yourself to do a full evaluation or spend a few bucks and have a professional appraiser check things out. Only then can you make a rational decision on whether to purchase that $$$$ RV. Will the dealer fix that defect? Will he be honest enough to give you at least some sort of warranty on possible defects? Can you fix minor defects yourself? And that capability or lack thereof is a bone of contention with me too. If you don't know which end of a screwdriver does the job, you should find another pastime - and unfortunately, I know a few of those that own expensive RVs, trailers or MHs.

When all said and done, you the buyer need to understand that there is often a reason that these RVs are being sold - and not all are to upgrade in model year and gadgets. As said above a few times, caveat emptor - the usually seller isn't.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:17 AM   #81
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I bought from a dealer; bought it on a whim after driving by the lot and seeing the guys cleaning bugs off the windshield (it had just been delivered).
Dealer and I looked at it together and compared notes and observations about the coach. Nice that it was virtually new, with less than 10K miles on it. I bought it after seeing it in person.

Unless I see something in person, no reason to send money; especially to a dealer that can honestly say that they aren't familiar with the coach. I would trust a CL or on-line FSBO site to know about their coach over a dealer's rep.
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...from Sept 2015
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:46 AM   #82
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" I would trust a CL or on-line FSBO site to know about their coach over a dealer's rep.[/QUOTE]

😳Senior moment here: what's a CL & FSBO?

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Jim & Shirley & Abbie (Scottish Terrier)
2013 Newmar Canyon Star 3911, 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan - Braun Accessibility Modified Toad, Remco Lube Pump, 5 Star Tune, Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C, Coach Net Emergency Road Service, FMCA 378968
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Old 06-15-2015, 09:35 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Jim T. View Post
" I would trust a CL or on-line FSBO site to know about their coach over a dealer's rep.

��Senior moment here: what's a CL & FSBO?

Jim & Shirley & Abbie (Scottie)
2013 Newmar Canyon Star 3911
2005 Dodge Grand Caravan[/QUOTE]

Craigslist and For Sale By Owner.
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Old 06-15-2015, 09:42 AM   #84
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CL- Craigslist
FSBO- For Sale By Owner

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Try to live up to your dogs opinion of you.
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