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Old 11-24-2007, 04:26 PM   #29
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stevegeorgetown:
Credit cards work best for people who know how to keep control of their finances. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


It's still a proven fact that you spend more $$$ using plastic than using dollar bills so in the end your loosing money.


A funny story, A good friend of mine has a net worth of about 6 million dollars. He bought a new car last year and was going to write a check for it. The salesman talked him into applying for a 0% for 48 month finanancing deal. This is a guy who has 4 million in mutual funds, a million in real-estate PAID FOR and the rest in cash and other liquid investments. He was denied the loan because he had no credit rating as he hasn't borrowed money in over 20 years never mind a 6 million dollar net worth. The only way to have a credit rating is to go in debt and stay in debt for the rest of your life. I am not willing to do that.

As far as credit cards all of us are paying more in the end to use them. Even if you pay your balance off every month the CC company is making money EVERY TIME YOU USE ONE! They wouldn't be giving you a CC if they weren't making money. My dad owns a campground and has had to raise rates to cover transaction fees and the 1.5% discount rate (what a name for a fee that screws a business.) He pays the credit card company $1.75 for every $100 spent. Business owners LOVE to see cash.


My employer was almost bankrupt in 1995 due to a lousy partner that borrowed a butload of money to buy equipment in a down construction market. He has built back a business that grosses over 2 million a year all without borrowing a dime. Granted it was a bit slower to grow but he had NO RISK with cash!! If the economy folds tomarrow he has no loans to worry about. Talk about a low stress business!
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Old 11-24-2007, 04:40 PM   #30
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GaryKD:
For those wanting to pay cash, go for it. I think you should continue to pay cash. Since I prefer to pay via CC and get the cash back, I'll continue to do that. Don't bash or lump me into a bucket with others. In over 40 years with CCs, I have never paid a penny of interest. In addition, I buy what I need, just like the cash customer. I pay the same price as a cash customer but I receive a considerable amount back which makes my cost lower than the cash paying customer's cost.

As for the wealthy people mentioned in an earlier post, me thinks the statement is bull (you know what). Ask any wealthy person if they built their wealth by paying cash. To a person, they would say their wealth was built with credit. Credit used wisely. You can begin with me. I'm considered wealthy and the wealth was and will continue to grow with credit. Credit used wisely and with a business cased that stays on the black side of the balance sheet. And no, I am not in the minority, but the silent majority.

The only news one hears is about the people who can not manage their $s in this complex society we live in. There are many, many of us who take advantage of what is offered and are able to profit from it.

The bottom line is if you feel what is best for you is to pay cash, then pay cash. Good luck to each of you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


From Dave Ramsey's site....

What Do Rich People Do?
I have found that if you look into the lives of the kind of people you want to be like, you will find common themes. If you want to be skinny, study skinny people. If you want to be rich, do what lots of rich people do, not what some myth-sayer says to do.
The Forbes 400 is a list of the richest 400 people in America as rated by Forbes magazine. When surveyed, 75% of the Forbes 400 (rich people, not your broke brother-in-law with an opinion) said the best way to build wealth is to become and stay debt-free. Walgreen's, Cisco, Microsoft, and Harley-Davidson are run debt-free.

I have met with thousands of millionaires in my years as a financial counselor, and I have never met one who said he made it all with Discover card bonus points. They all lived on less than they made and spent only when they had cash. No payments.

History of Debt
History also teaches us that debt wasn't always a way of life. In fact, three of the biggest lenders today were founded by people who hated debt. Sears now makes more money on credit than on the sale of merchandise. They are not a store; they are a lender with some stuff out front. However, in 1910 the Sears catalog stated, "Buying on Credit is Folly." J. C. Penney department stores make millions annually on their plastic, but their founder was nicknamed James "Cash" Penney because he detested the use of debt.

Henry Ford thought debt was a lazy man's method to purchase items, and his philosophy was so ingrained in Ford Motor Company that Ford didn't offer financing until 10 years after General Motors did. Now, of course, Ford Motor credit is one of the most profitable of Ford Motor's operations. The old school saw the folly of debt; the new school saw the opportunity to take advantage of the consumer with debt.

The Debt Myth
You have probably heard a lot of the sub-myths which fall in line behind the big one that says, "Debt is a tool." Are you beginning to understand that debt is NOT a tool? This myth and all its little sub-myths have been spread far and wide. Always keep in mind the idea that if you tell a lie often enough, loud enough, and long enough, the myth becomes accepted as a fact. Repetition, volume and longevity will twist and turn a myth - a lie - into a commonly accepted way of doing things.

No more. Debt is not a tool; it is a method to make banks wealthy, not you. The borrower is truly servant to the lender. Your largest wealth-building asset is your income. When you tie up your income, you lose. When you invest your income, you become wealthy and can do anything you want.
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Old 11-24-2007, 04:50 PM   #31
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mjstef,
We have different views of this picture. Each has been successful. In my post, I wished those with a different view good luck. I wish you good luck with your views and methods of success. Can you do the same?
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Old 11-24-2007, 05:35 PM   #32
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CC users for fuel, (providing you pay your statement in full every month), are the only winners out there. If the price is loaded for CC discounts, and I suspect they are. You, the cash customer pay that same price and get no rebate. I for one have never bought more of anything because I use a CC. To me it is just the same as cash, only I get to use theirs or yours for up to a month free. Try to rent a hotel room or rent a car with out a CC. Another benefit of importance to me is the extended warranty when using a CC, or the right of refusal to pay for inferior service or merchandise. With cash you are a loser most of the time. This is not meant to be sarcastic in any way, just facts of the financial world.
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Old 11-24-2007, 06:10 PM   #33
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Homer:
CC users for fuel, (providing you pay your statement in full every month), are the only winners out there. If the price is loaded for CC discounts, and I suspect they are. You, the cash customer pay that same price and get no rebate. I for one have never bought more of anything because I use a CC. To me it is just the same as cash, only I get to use theirs or yours for up to a month free. Try to rent a hotel room or rent a car with out a CC. Another benefit of importance to me is the extended warranty when using a CC, or the right of refusal to pay for inferior service or merchandise. With cash you are a loser most of the time. This is not meant to be sarcastic in any way, just facts of the financial world. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Kinda funny what cash can do for you. I bought a new chair last month that was priced at $325. Went to the counter and opened my wallet, Counted out $250 cash and told the clerk that was all i had and left my checkbook at home, Guess what? He took $250 for the chair!! With a CC your negotiating advantage is very little. Try it sometime, You'll be surprised. I have been blown away on what i can negotiate for!! I do live in a town of 30,000 so that may be part of it but it still works. My biggest annoyance with credit cards is the idiot buying a cup of coffee with one when he/she is in line in front of me at the gas station!! Why hold the line up! Geez at least put a 20 in your wallet for small purchases!!! That dollar cup off coffee cost the gas station 26.5 cents on average for cc fees!!!! It's passed on to all of us in the form of higher prices!!! That is what y'all are not getting because you are not seeing it!!! Our local gas station, a small family owned store makes 2 cents on a gallon of gas. He is the same price as the othe 10 stations in town. If you don't buy anything in the store he actually LOOSE money by selling gas! Ever wonder why a bottle of Pepsi is $1.49?? There covering for loosing $$ on gas with CC's
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:42 AM   #34
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[quote]As far as credit cards all of us are paying more in the end to use them.


Not me.
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Old 11-25-2007, 03:27 AM   #35
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mjstef,
I extended to you an offer and you have rejected it by continuing to cite ad hoc examples of the view you subscribe to. That us unfortunate.

For those reading this thread who are unfamilar with the references mentioned in earlier posts, beware of ad hoc instances used to support a position, when sourced by people who make a living promoting that point of view. They should be viewed with a critical eye. As an example, do a Google search on Dave Ramsey. One will find he is one of many people who makes a living by selling his products based on a specific point of view. There are thousands of people who do this for a living in every marketable product one can imagine. I am not critizing, just pointing out to beware of any source when they are trying to sell you something.

The bottom line is there is more than one way to accumulate wealth and manage our finances. No choice is fool proof. Each choice brings benefits and costs. Each of us must determine what works best for us. It is like discussing religon or politics. It can go on forever with no gain for the people invloved.

Decide what is best for you and your family and go for it. And good luck to you.

This ends my contribution to this thread.
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:16 AM   #36
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Roger and out!
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:35 AM   #37
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Not quite as easy to find but if you have a $35.00 membership to Sams Club you get .05 cents a gal off right at the pump.
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:40 AM   #38
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I like my American Express Cash Back Business card:
5% on gas purchases
5% on cell phone bills and hardware
3% on office supplies
1% on everything else
(Miscellaneous discounts on Hotels and other stuff.)

I get about $60-$100 cash back every month with this card. And I carry a zero balance month to month, just as good as any debit card. One thing not mentioned in this thread: carrying a lot of cash to pay for things makes me nervous. With a CC, if my wallet gets lost or stolen I am only liable for at the most $50.

Oh and just a comment on Dave Ramsey...

He is not a financial god by any stretch of the imagination. By his own admission he has been bankrupt (I hope he paid everybody back). Supposedly, he has learned from this mistakes and this qualifies him to advise others on what not to do. It looks like he is making a darn good living giving others advice. His radio show sounds like an infomercial and if you go to his website there is a pyramid training scheme, where he trains you to train others. Besides the tuition (only $3750) the only qualification you need is that you have the heart of a teacher..... no license, no financial background, no college degree, nothing. In just 3 days you are a Certified Financial Counselor.
I am sure his method has helped many people get out of debt, and that's a good thing. However, I personally find his methods a bit extreme. He believes you need to sacrifice now to be debt free in the future. Heck, I might not live that long. I believe everything in moderation and that you should be able to at least enjoy a little of life now, and save a little for later.

If I adhered to his philosophies I probably would not own a motorhome because I borrowed money to do it. Even though my money was earning more interest in my portfolio, according to Dave Ramsey, I should pay cash for the motorhome. I personally don't listen to him, I am on enough guilt trips for the rest of my vices.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:48 AM   #39
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I know this is getting way off the subject matter but credit cards in the right hands can payoff very big.... But be prepared to make it a long term thing..Ok, this will be a long tread to explain, so I will try to get to the point...BUT I will need to give some groundwork here to prove my point.
Obviously-you pay your monthly charges every month.NO interest- {THE KEY} Over years your credit rating and LIMIT builds up. Ok - now you have cards that have 30 to 50 thousand dollar limits or better.
Because of this, I control a very large amount of "credit" easily over half million.
Now -this is the part you must understand- the card is used as a BUISNESS..... In my case- I controlled real estate buying power by ROLLING over cards FOR something called BALANCE TRANSFERS- Now each card has it's own rules... But with so many to choose from in my collection,
I am able to take advantage of offers no Bank would ever give a client.... By the way, do any of you Non credit card users.... use a bank.. mortgage? ect.... just wondering....
So now I want to purchase a property that I will renovate and lease out. I Roll over a couple cards that offer 1% 2% 3% for one to three years on $80,000. No closing cost and only a one time charge of up to $75 max fee down to nothing depending on the offer.
In three years I will pay for the house twice over in rent received and the interest on 1-3% will be mimimal
compared to any other method I know of..
BOTTOM LINE ****** YOU PAY THAT TRANSFER BALANCE OFF ON THAT DUE DATE- but I have made a small fortune in rent during those 36 month's minus the renovation phase...
I have turned the number of houses I own into the "teens" with this appoach from 3-4 houses.
I own just about everything outright. My credit card debt is non-existant.
The secret is that you are using it in a BUISNESS SENSE !!! You must be dicipline and understand the values offered and where the pitfalls lie..There are many pitfalls indeed. But indeed, I have built a small empire of houses and a major part of that was knowing how to use credit cards to my advantage. It's about math and interest numbers and most important- TIME- because time is money and as I sit here enjoying this type.... I am making money every second on rent...
You must understand that control of large amounts of credit can move mountains like nothing else- Let me explain further- YOU want a motorhome- are you going to pay cash.....?
A bank loan rate is directly connected to your "CREDIT RATING" OK now- whats that you say.. no credit cards....no rating........ you sir are going to be hit with the highest interest rates... when they got a look at my credit rating- I had offer's for less then 3%
and qualified for a no intrest loan on certain RV models.... Unless you prove over years that you can handle these responsibilities ...you will never get offers like this... Or credit limits like this. It is only through 10-15 years at the least that a credit rating and credit limit is developed.
Needless to say that my motorhome was directly tied to my credit rating through the commercial banks...
I have been able to gather up this amount of real estate because of the ability to "EXTEND CREDIT"
There is not a chance I would have all this if there was not such a thing as credit cards....Maybe a portion but again the ability to "Extend credit for periods of years" has helped to set me up for life.
NEVER PAY LARGE SUMS OF CASH RESERVE WHEN YOU CAN CONTROL SOMETHING FOR A MINOR PORTION AND A GREAT INTEREST RATE. KEEP THE BANK ROLL IN RESERVE. CONTROL MUCH WITH AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE.......REAL ESTATE- Motorhomes- JETS- BOATS- Whatever your about...

By the way, I was intested in this thread because I too am looking for the best Diesel credit card rebate available.
Did we come to a conclusion on which couple were really good ? I will check all that was mentioned so far... But will check back to see what we come up with here.
Thanks and sorry to detour from the original question here....just needed to back the credit card users here.
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