Community Forums

timjet · 12-21-2016, 06:34 AM

I was just wondering, when looking at a potential purchase at a dealership for a used coach who holds the title, the dealer or the previous owner. I'm guessing the dealer re-titles in their name. How about at a consignment place like PPL.

At a dealership (licensed in their state as a dealership), at purchase they take care of all the paperwork, like title transfer, tag either temp or permanent, taxes, etc. If as I suspect the title should be clear with no liens.

If on consignment at a consignment place either a dealership or other?? how is the paperwork handled. Is it up to the buyer and seller to do this or does the consignment place do this?

Can you be assured if buying from a dealership that the title is legit and clear. How can you determine this?

LJowdy · 12-21-2016, 06:59 AM

If they are a licensed dealer, they pay off the trade in and theoretically hold the title. If it's a consignment, the owner holds the title and the dealer does the necessary state paperwork to transfer title to you or to your lender.

docsdock · 12-21-2016, 07:02 AM

Mine for sale at consignment - I had the choice to hold title or sign it and have them hold it with safety contracts to protect me and them.

MSHappyCampers · 12-21-2016, 08:26 AM

If it's an RV that the dealership traded for, then the dealer would hold the title. If it's a consignment RV, then normally the owner would hold the title.

Gary RVRoamer · 12-21-2016, 09:09 AM

"Hold" the title has a legal meaning in this case, not just who has physical possession. There will also be differences depending on the state, since each has its own vehicle title laws and procedures.

In most (if not all) states, a registered dealer does NOT actually get the title transferred into his name. The dealer notifies the state that the vehicle has been "returned to dealer stock" and that puts the title in limbo. It's one of the things a registered vehicle dealer can do in most states, while a private owner cannot. In many states you will sign a power of attorney authorizing the dealer to complete the transfer later. However, if you traded in a vehicle and signed over an official state title form, the dealer might just keep that legal paper until a resale occurs, and then do a formal transfer to the new owner. In that case, the state thinks the vehicle is still yours, since they are not notified of a transfer at that time.

A consignment sale is different, since the consignment "dealer" is merely an agent for a private seller. May not be officially a "dealer" at all.

If you looked at a Carfax report of a vehicle that has been traded through a registered dealer, you generally will NOT ever see a title move in and out of a dealers name in between the seller and the ultimate buyer.

Mr_D · 12-21-2016, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer

"Hold" the title has a legal meaning in this case, not just who has physical possession. There will also be differences depending on the state, since each has its own vehicle title laws and procedures.

In most (if not all) states, a registered dealer does NOT actually get the title transferred into his name. The dealer notifies the state that the vehicle has been "returned to dealer stock" and that puts the title in limbo. It's one of the things a registered vehicle dealer can do in most states, while a private owner cannot. In many states you will sign a power of attorney authorizing the dealer to complete the transfer later. However, if you traded in a vehicle and signed over an official state title form, the dealer might just keep that legal paper until a resale occurs, and then do a formal transfer to the new owner. In that case, the state thinks the vehicle is still yours, since they are not notified of a transfer at that time.

A consignment sale is different, since the consignment "dealer" is merely an agent for a private seller. May not be officially a "dealer' at all.

Gary: good explanation and here (WA state) the dealer has the title, but not in their name. The title is transferred through the dealer but is not in his name.

timjet · 12-22-2016, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer

"Hold" the title has a legal meaning in this case, not just who has physical possession.

In most (if not all) states, a registered dealer does NOT actually get the title transferred into his name. The dealer notifies the state that the vehicle has been "returned to dealer stock" and that puts the title in limbo.

Thanks Gary for that explanation. So a vehicle that has been "returned to dealer stock", does the dealership own it and are they responsible for insuring it while on their lot? My guess is the dealership does own it but without a title how could it be proved.

My concern is if you happen to find a couch you like and it's being sold by an unethical dealer what does a potential buyer need to be aware of concerning ownership and the name on the title?

Gary RVRoamer · 12-22-2016, 07:56 AM

A dealer typically has blanket insurance on his inventory as part of his business insurance. He generally doesn't buy individual vehicle policies, and his business records show what he "owns" at any given point in time.

The risks of an unethical dealer are the same as used car buying. It's possible the dealer will violate both ethics and state laws, and you can report discrepancies to the state attorney general or consumer office. But that doesn't always help you immediately. Best advice I can offer is to discuss the title transfer with him in advance and get a definite date commitment for filing the state title paperwork. Then watch carefully for any deviation. He knows he will lose his vehicle sales license if he gets caught play games with the title, so he will make sure that a vigilant buyer doesn't find anything wrong.

In a consignment transaction, you should receive either the actual owners signed title transfer form or a state-certified form showing that application has been made to transfer the title into your name. Again, you are buying from a private seller, not the consignment agent.

Hit_the_Rhod · 12-22-2016, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer

"Hold" the title has a legal meaning in this case, not just who has physical possession. There will also be differences depending on the state, since each has its own vehicle title laws and procedures.

In most (if not all) states, a registered dealer does NOT actually get the title transferred into his name. The dealer notifies the state that the vehicle has been "returned to dealer stock" and that puts the title in limbo. It's one of the things a registered vehicle dealer can do in most states, while a private owner cannot. In many states you will sign a power of attorney authorizing the dealer to complete the transfer later. However, if you traded in a vehicle and signed over an official state title form, the dealer might just keep that legal paper until a resale occurs, and then do a formal transfer to the new owner. In that case, the state thinks the vehicle is still yours, since they are not notified of a transfer at that time.

Absolutely true, but there-in lye's the problem. In Kentucky some (perhaps even many) dealerships do not notify the State that they have accepted a vehicle as a trade-in as required by law. Sooooo, what's the problem? The problem is that the Owner of Record on 1 January gets hit accessed with the property tax on the vehicle for the entire following year . . .

Example: John trades in a car to "Honest Abe's Used Car lot" on 21 December, but doesn't notify the state. Honest Abe sells the car on 30 January, 40 days later. Neither the old owner OR the new purchaser should be paying the tax since the car was owned by "Honest" Abe on 1 January. The old owner receives his tax bill in his birth month (which may by in December, 12 months after he traded in the car! He probably ends up paying it unless he knows better, and goes to the DMV and presents the proof that he was NOT the owner of the vehicle on 1 January.

The dealership should have paid the tax since THEY owned the vehicle on 1 January. Most people don't realize it, or don't have the paperwork, and just end up paying up. Many dealerships rely on that, and stick the old owner with the tax.

Hit_the_Rhod · 12-22-2016, 08:28 AM

One item I forgot to mention. Most states have a form you can fill out at the DMV to report a sale. You generally put the VIN, the old owner (you), the new owners name, either a private individual, OR a dealership in the event of a trade-in, the date of the transfer, and sometimes the amount of the sale. If you go into the DMV in person, you can file it with them, and they can stamp your copy as received by them. THAT document is your proof that you no longer own the vehicle, and it will allow you to cancel your insurance with no risk that the new owner will not get insurance and may have an accident that comes back on you. It allows suffices as proof that you are not responsible for upcoming years taxes . . . .

JohnBoyToo · 12-22-2016, 08:48 AM

IMHO, whoever paid for the vehicle - i.e. the real 'owner' has the title....

1) If there is a bank loan, the bank has it... you are just paying the loan

2) If on consignment, then the 'sellor/owner' will have the title if paid off otherwise see 1

3) if a trade in or private sale, if you are the seller of ANY motor vehicle, keep a signed bill of sale to show you are not responsible for the future taxes, etc.. AND not at fault if they go mow down Christmas shoppers :(

nothermark · 12-22-2016, 08:58 AM

FWIW I would assume surrendering the license plates would clear up some parts of the "what happens if" scenario. Somebody has to produce a title to get new one's or the dealer has to stock it so he can issue a new temp tag and start the transfer to a new owner.

I would think the bigger problem is what happens if the unit is damaged on the dealers lot or someone is hurt by the unit when at the dealer.

cwsqbm · 12-22-2016, 09:58 AM

Not all states require plates to be surrendered. I have every plate I've ever had, and some of my parents' too.

If you trade-in, the paper from the dealership is your proof. My parents were messed with by a dealership that was holding on to loan payoffs on trade ins. It cost the dealership their business.

select55 · 12-22-2016, 10:23 AM

it should be the way we do it u here in BC.;;When u trade off the vehicle
the dealer must make sure its lien free and clear all liens at time of the trade in.( once they assume title there responsible for any un cleared liens/debt) We call it vehicle registration and not title (same thing)
The vehicle is then transferred to the dealership;When you buy the vehicle or trailer etc the dealer transfers title from there name to yours and the vehicle is debt free and your covered by the bond that the dealership must carry to avoid any $$$ pitfalls (unlikely) but can happen
Consignment is different a little bit as the dealer does not hold title but most will upon selling it transfer to their name;;clear liens and transfer it to new owner