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Old 12-28-2012, 09:20 PM   #141
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Hard to talk over the sound of an (air) horn, although it could bring undesirable results.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:42 PM   #142
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I try to be courteous. I back out of it and flash my highs to let the guy on the on ramp know it's clear to accelerate and merge. If he sits there waiting for a written invitation then he loses the spot.
On my morning commute the road widens from two to three lanes, the far left lane for through traffic. The morons reach that and once the two remaining lanes are settled in to get on the bridge they force their way in without signalling. For some reason they then feel the obsessive/compulsive need to jam their way into the curb lane. Both lanes merge into one at the bottom of the hill, what is the flipping hurry? They then get a bent door or fender and refuse to move until the cops, ambulance, tow truck and their mommy show up.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:20 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wa8yxm View Post
Though the phrase "Your millage may vary" truly applies to laws. which do indeed vary from state to state and even city to city...

You are (in some places at least) mistaken.

Though I failed to find it in a search of the Michigan Vehicle code, I do recall a requiement that a car in a "right lane must turn right" lane, MUST turn (unless there is a sign prohibiting) when traffic allows.

However a complete search fails to find that now, It may have been written out before my last download of the vehicle code.. Laws do change from time to time.
A key phrase in the law that you are trying to find appears to be "when traffic allows". It has probably been written out of the law because it is nebulous and almost unenforceable. I'm sure that the defense lawyers loved the phraseology of the statute and used it to their full advantage.

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Much citing of traffic law, and much opinion, but there is one thing I have not read here. The 3 second, or 1 car length for every 10 mph, rules for traffic. If the proper was space left in between vehicles, this discussion would probably not even be here. Now I do know this spacing of traffic will never happen. I drove a (VERY loaded) heavy equipment service truck in and around Washington DC, Maryland, and Virginia, for over 20 years. Not enough distance between vehicles ever. My 'merge / yield' rule was given to me by a 30 year veteran of the DC traffic. 'The one with the most lug nuts wins'. I never had a mishap driving my service truck in and around DC. The DC traffic is second only to L.A. for traffic jams, long commute time, and bad drivers. When driving in DC with a truck that will hardly get out of its own way you learn quickly how to merge into heavy traffic. Come off the ramp (maybe only 15 -20 mph) as fast as you are able, with the turn signal on, floor the throttle, and pick your merge point. Do your best to keep pace with that opening. Once you have paced that opening for three flashes of the turn signal, on the third flash, put your wheels on the white line and slowly, very slowly, watching the guy you are pulling in behind, and make your own hole. Drivers really do not want to hit you, they just want to prove a point. Not the friendliest method but it works. Keeping in mind the 'lug nut rule' when picking your opening. If you really want to drive those around you nuts, leave the turn signal flashing for a mile or so. (just kidding) I would never do that intentionally.

This discussion was just for fun anyway, wasn't it? Seems to me the biggest problem is people do not pay attention to their driving. When you are driving, that is your only job. Not the radio, cd player, phone, the GPS, other people, the scenery, or that real odd looking car 2 lanes over. Just drive the @#$% vehicle!
The 3 second rule is good, but the 4 second rule is better. It's the one used in most commercial defensive driving courses. When you start getting into combination vehicles weighing tens of thousands of pounds the 4 second rule should apply. The good thing about either rule is that time is directly proportionate to speed unlike the old "Stopping Distance" rules.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:05 PM   #144
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Just try to stay 3 -5 car lengths behind the car in front of you. There will always be the "toy" car that has to pass you and pull right in front of you so if you have to stop quick you will take them out. Stupid people driving stupid cars.... never fails...
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:02 PM   #145
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Stupid cars?? What cars would you recommend I drive?
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:05 PM   #146
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What cars would you recommend I drive?
For you, Jim, I'm thinkin' this Chrysler:






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Old 12-30-2012, 03:28 PM   #147
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I have commented earlier that is precisely why I NEVER use the right lane when traveling by towns on the highway.
X2
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:13 PM   #148
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My driving style is much like "RoyM", as he posted above.
I find more and more that it matters little if I am in the Motor Home
or the wife's CRV. It is the mentality of people.

Beaver... as far as the right turn lane law, in Va. we covered it with
either a reckless driving or Failure to follow uniform signs and markers.
Depending on the Judge's expressed desire for his court.
If you are in the right turn only lane, you are required to turn right.
Each state's enforcement is different.

As far as the 20% etc. stuff goes, that is a civil matter between insurance companies settling between each other and screwing over their client because
they had paperwork to do.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:49 PM   #149
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Just try to stay 3 -5 car lengths behind the car in front of you. There will always be the "toy" car that has to pass you and pull right in front of you so if you have to stop quick you will take them out. Stupid people driving stupid cars.... never fails...

Bad advice.. 3 car lengths (at freeway speed) is tailgating. Alas, it is also very common.

Not to mention that is a lot of math to do.

For any given speed as you drive note an easily defined point the vehicle in front of you passes. Example.. The shadow of a bridge, and as it passes start counting One thousand One, One thousand Two, One thousand Three. If you are already past the "Mark" you are FOLLOWING TOO CLOSE.

Sadly, there will always be some IDIOT who insists on plugging that 3 second gap.
RV safety instructors also say you should add one second for each 20 feet of combined vehicle length..

My study of math, physics and other sciences, coupled with interviews with trained accident investigators (including said instructor) fail to find the logic to that.. Provided, and this is very important, PROVIDED that all wheels (Motor home and towed) are involved in braking when you stand on 'em.

But 3 car lengths at freeway speeds is just flat TOO CLOSE.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:43 PM   #150
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The ones that end up in front of me at the light are often the ones that wanted that extra 18 feet of highway at the light. I allow them the 18 feet, and wave at them as I pull up behind. I'm certain they appreciate my friendly attitude. ;-)
I cant change them.
They cant change me.
Be safe out there folks!
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:47 PM   #151
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Bad advice.. 3 car lengths (at freeway speed) is tailgating. Alas, it is also very common.

Not to mention that is a lot of math to do.

For any given speed as you drive note an easily defined point the vehicle in front of you passes. Example.. The shadow of a bridge, and as it passes start counting One thousand One, One thousand Two, One thousand Three. If you are already past the "Mark" you are FOLLOWING TOO CLOSE.

Sadly, there will always be some IDIOT who insists on plugging that 3 second gap.
RV safety instructors also say you should add one second for each 20 feet of combined vehicle length..

My study of math, physics and other sciences, coupled with interviews with trained accident investigators (including said instructor) fail to find the logic to that.. Provided, and this is very important, PROVIDED that all wheels (Motor home and towed) are involved in braking when you stand on 'em.

But 3 car lengths at freeway speeds is just flat TOO CLOSE.
The trouble with using car lengths is the cars have gotten shorter. Cars years ago were more like 20' but now they are about 15'. That makes 3 car lengths go from 60' to 45' which is to close at either number when going 60. I learned to use the 2 second rule when I was teaching defensive driving for our fire dept about 30 years ago. The 3 second rule sounds better to me.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:59 PM   #152
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For you, Jim, I'm thinkin' this Chrysler:









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Old 12-30-2012, 08:51 PM   #153
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Check this chart out. It compares stopping distances of cars versus trucks (or other equally large vehicles). You can see that if you are a car traveling at 60 mph or 88 feet/second you are going to cover 264 feet in three seconds while your total braking distance including reaction time is 303 feet. In this case the 3 second rule is valid.

However, a heavier vehicle is going to need more stopping distance and therefore, more time. A truck, or heavier vehicle, moving at 60 mph or 88 fps will require as much as 361 feet to stop including reaction time. That actually exceeds a 4 second safety interval between vehicles.

Ratio of Speed to Stopping Distance
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:47 PM   #154
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It appears that this thread has taken a minor detour from merging traffic to right-on-red and now to safety intervals and stopping distances. For that I am partially responsible. So in an effort to bring the thread back to it's original topic I submit the following:

Road Rage Karma - YouTube
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