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Old 09-22-2016, 02:37 PM   #15
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I think it should be a Stickie
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Old 09-22-2016, 02:49 PM   #16
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Roger,

Good to see you here.

As soon as I saw the title, I was getting ready to post the link to your site just as I have lots of places since I heard you at Goshen.

I'm still going to keep posting that link everywhere there are tires.

Frank
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Old 09-22-2016, 04:46 PM   #17
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An acecdotal story to go along with the original post.

We were traveling southbound on I15 south of Salt Lake City in late July, my wife drivng our coach at our normal wide open interstate speed between 60-65mph. I think the speed limit was 75.

Lots of RVs, TTs, etc., but what had been noticeable to me was that it seemed a lot of big pick ups pulling TTs were flying past us, and keeping pace with autos that were 75mph+. At one point, I start smelling what seems to be burning rubber. I immediately look at my TST monitor to ensure that everything is fine with us, and at that point I hear a a"boom", not us, look up, and a big pick up with a TT that had just passed us blew a trailer tire. He couldn't have been 200 yards in front of us, still in the left lane when it blew. He got off the road just fine, and we did not hit any tire debris.

Given the apparent age and not well cared for look of the TT, it would not have been surprising that the tires were well past thier prime nor properly inflated, compounded by driving well over 75mph. Kind of a 3 for 3 on how to blow a tire........

I was going to post this story after it happened, but never got around to it, so this reminded me of that incident.

Be safe!
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:44 PM   #18
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So while on the subject of why tires fail, maybe someone can answer this, and if it needs to be it's own thread just say so. I had a short drive with fifth wheel camper below, topped off tires to 80#s before leaving. About 30 minutes into drive had a hard stop from about 40 mph to zero, don't think the tires locked up (no flat spots) but due to a dip in the road while braking the truck bucked pretty hard. Didn't think much of it then, and not sure if I should now. About thirty minutes later get to camp, back in with an easy left turn, didn't run over anything or turn sharp. Next afternoon the rear left trailer tire is absolutely flat. Changed tire, check for objects and find nothing other than a very small piece of wire about the thickness of a horse hair, and doubtful it was in deep enough to puncture the tire. Tire still holding air, no bubbles with soapy water. A week after I get home I notice the rear trailer tire on the other side is flat now...air it up and it is also holding now.

Coincidence? Bad luck? Can hard braking break the bead loose?
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:56 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Funhaus View Post
Don't get your panties in a wad I didn't correct him. Just stated the fact that most people use the word "Blow out" when they have a flat regardless if its a high pressure blow out or a sidewall failure due to low pressure or extensive heat.
Just sayin.
I will correct you if you call a magazine a clip though.
We must have different sartorial tastes as I don't wear panties. Do you? Second, nomenclature counts way more than you obviously realize. It matters not what "most people" call it. It is what it is. Finally, being a competitive shooter, reloader and EDC guy for the last 35+ years I would never call a clip a mag, although I don't see how that figures into a discussion on tires. I will, however, call you a tad too tightly wrapped. Lighten up, it was a friendly discussion before your post.
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:10 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by greystroke View Post
nice Tireman. Good Post.

What about speed? Speed generates more heat, right? I see some of these big rigs pass me like I am standing still. Most tables I look at list 75 as the max speed.

What happens to the tire for sustained speeds of 80-85??
More speed = more heat

More heat = shorter tire life.

FYI I drive 62 - 65 in my Class-C. Drove OHIO > Oregon > BC > MT > SD > OH in '15 using cruse at 62 - 63 so I don't buy the I can't drive slower than 75
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:23 PM   #21
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Tireman I know what your saying about "blowout" but I think people generally refer to this as a blow out because it probably made a loud noise when it went, weather it was from high pressure or not, it's just a term that in your eyes is used incorrectly. Sort of like the person who comes home and finds stuff missing from their house and exclaims "I've been robbed," no you were a victim of theft or burglary, in most areas robbery is a face to face encounter which one or more people forcibly take property from its rightful owner.
A "blowout" can be a scary event, whether it happens from high pressure "blowing" out your tire or the tire just coming apart.
But thanks for the informative article, hopefully it will prevent people from having a "flat" tire.
Sorry but I disagree. If every failure is a "Blowout" you have no chance of understanding what action to take to prevent a re-occurrence.

RE "I've been robbed" what if the person comes home and finds stuff missing when the reason the stuff isn't there is the significant other was picking stuff up to have it re-finished or re-upholstered? Maybe coming home to discover your partner not moving and on the floor would you always assume they were poisoned and call police? What if they just slipped and knocked themselves unconscious? or had a heart attack? or suffered an electrical shock.

My main point is that a Run Low Flex failure has completely different cause(s) than a Tread/Belt separation.

Tires do not fail from high pressure. They loose pressure and when the heat or fatigue gets excessive the sidewall fails and the 5 psi remaining rapidly blows out. Even Belt/tread separations can have a rapid loss of air even if fully inflated so again how will you know what corrective action to take?

The tire on the wheel in the close-up shot was initially claimed to be a "defective" tire by the owner. Clearly an incorrect conclusion not supported by the facts.
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:31 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by CampDaven View Post
This thread by Tireman9 says a lot, including failure via low pressure and the value of TPMS
Perhaps a cause of this event?
Blowout close call on I-26
If they had a TPMS the driver should be in right lane looking for place to pull over. TPMS will report the current pressure. Once you drop 30 to 50% of the pressure you need to stop ASAP as tire sidewall failure can occur at any time.

I believe that unless the evidence shows a tread/belt separation a sidewall run low flex failure is most probable cause which points to the driver not taking appropriate preventive action. Just like if they were told their brakes were worn out or they had a leak in brake system but chose to drive anyway and there was a failur of the brakes. It is the drivers fault.
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:41 PM   #23
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Another scenario I have witnessed greater incident of blowout is the following .Super hot summer day the big rig has been on the HI way all day, the tires are very hot then a sudden cold rain downpour. The excess heat in the tire plus sudden cooling and contraction of tire lead to sidewall failure .

Have monitored tire temperature from hot to cool due to rain. Rubber is very good insulator so temperature drop takes minuted. Pressure only changes 2% for 10F change.
In 40 years do not recall ever seeing a tire fail from contraction.

Tires are designed to handle normal road temperatures (100 - 140 road surface)
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:44 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Zigeuner View Post
So while on the subject of why tires fail, maybe someone can answer this, and if it needs to be it's own thread just say so. I had a short drive with fifth wheel camper below, topped off tires to 80#s before leaving. About 30 minutes into drive had a hard stop from about 40 mph to zero, don't think the tires locked up (no flat spots) but due to a dip in the road while braking the truck bucked pretty hard. Didn't think much of it then, and not sure if I should now. About thirty minutes later get to camp, back in with an easy left turn, didn't run over anything or turn sharp. Next afternoon the rear left trailer tire is absolutely flat. Changed tire, check for objects and find nothing other than a very small piece of wire about the thickness of a horse hair, and doubtful it was in deep enough to puncture the tire. Tire still holding air, no bubbles with soapy water. A week after I get home I notice the rear trailer tire on the other side is flat now...air it up and it is also holding now.

Coincidence? Bad luck? Can hard braking break the bead loose?
After topping off your tires, did you spit, or spray soapy water, on the ends of the valves and look for bubbles, before putting the cap back on ?

I do it every time, to confirm that the core isn't leaking.

I believe many flats are caused by slow leaking valve cores, after users check the tire pressure.
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:53 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Zigeuner View Post
So while on the subject of why tires fail, maybe someone can answer this, and if it needs to be it's own thread just say so. I had a short drive with fifth wheel camper below, topped off tires to 80#s before leaving. About 30 minutes into drive had a hard stop from about 40 mph to zero, don't think the tires locked up (no flat spots) but due to a dip in the road while braking the truck bucked pretty hard. Didn't think much of it then, and not sure if I should now. About thirty minutes later get to camp, back in with an easy left turn, didn't run over anything or turn sharp. Next afternoon the rear left trailer tire is absolutely flat. Changed tire, check for objects and find nothing other than a very small piece of wire about the thickness of a horse hair, and doubtful it was in deep enough to puncture the tire. Tire still holding air, no bubbles with soapy water. A week after I get home I notice the rear trailer tire on the other side is flat now...air it up and it is also holding now.

Coincidence? Bad luck? Can hard braking break the bead loose?
Hard braking isn't going to brake the bead loose especially if there was no flat spot. If the bead did brake loose the tire comes off the rim and drops into center of wheel at once not days/hours later. Without being able to inspect the tires I can only guess, BUT if a tire looses air there is a reason which competent inspection should find.

Why aren't you running TPMS?
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Old 09-22-2016, 09:04 PM   #26
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Folks. Please stop the sniping. I would like to have this thread a sticky and not get shut down. You might even ask a moderator to delete any off-topic comments to keep this thread focused on tire failures.

I can handle people disagreeing with me.
I write my blog, give seminars from Oregon to Mass & GA to WI and have taught in North, Central and South America. Even taught DOT engineers in Washington DC so I am comfortable and confident in my knowledge which is based on being involved with about 20,000 tire autopsies over the years.

I also follow and post to a number of RV forums because I want people to have fewer tire related problems. If some choose to believe something different than what I suggest then they will eventually learn if they or I was more correct.

All is good on my end.
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Old 09-22-2016, 09:10 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Sorry but I disagree. If every failure is a "Blowout" you have no chance of understanding what action to take to prevent a re-occurrence.
.
First off I didn't say every failure was a "Blowout" I said most people refer to them as a "blowout". I did not mean any disrespect to your article all I was stating was that "most" people refer to every flat tire scenario as a "Blowout"

Quote:
Originally Posted by aguablanco View Post
We must have different sartorial tastes as I don't wear panties. Do you? Second, nomenclature counts way more than you obviously realize. It matters not what "most people" call it. It is what it is. Finally, being a competitive shooter, reloader and EDC guy for the last 35+ years I would never call a clip a mag, although I don't see how that figures into a discussion on tires. I will, however, call you a tad too tightly wrapped. Lighten up, it was a friendly discussion before your post.
RichH
PS, I will explain EDC if you like.
You don't see how it figures into a discussion on tires? As I stated above, all I was trying to say is "most" people refer to any flat tire situation as a "Blowout" when in fact it could have been any one of the scenarios that Tireman was describing.

No, I'm pretty sure I know what EDC means.
Do you compete in USPSA, GSSF, IDPA or NRA events or do I need to spell out what those actually stand for?

My apologies If I offended anyone, that was not my intention.
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Old 09-22-2016, 09:25 PM   #28
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It's time to get back on topic you have all had your say and it's time to leave it at that.
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