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01-17-2017, 01:42 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Jayco Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superslif
Yes, many are caught with the companies funding retirees health care cost or shared costs.
Some as myself, might also fall into not having their retirement health care falling on there company, but on the Union that was ( supposed to be) putting funds away for union members retirement pension and health care.
For the last 20-25 years, the union I belonged to during contract negotiation instead of increasing the health care or pension contributions from the company, would put that money towards a larger raise for newer employees to get them to pass the contracts. Worked every time. The union would repeatedly say "Don't worry your covered, you will be fine come retirement". Then you get a letter in the mail your pension was being cut 50% going forward, health care if you need it is $800 month.
Life has not gotten easier. Only for the few at the top 5%. I suggest to young people even still in school start "YOUR OWN RETIREMENT FUND" & "LIVE AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO A DEBT-FREE LIFE STYLE" Problem with that statement is owning an RV with a loan is about the worst thing one can do instead of socking away for ones retirement.
The only person you can trust is yourself.
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Excellent!!
__________________
DonavonP
2016 Jayco White Hawk 27dsrl
US Army 1968-70 SETAF 559th Vicenza Italy
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01-17-2017, 05:41 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyjt
An article in the Jan 16 edition of RV Pro is titled "Winnebago to End Post-Retirement Health Benefits." Sad that all their current retirees under 65 will no longer receive these benefits. They are simply being discontinued. Pretty sad that a company would pull something like this on their existing retirees. I could understand not offering benefits going forward to new retirees, but these people retired and were promised certain benefits. Now Winnebago is reneging on that promise. All of us retirees need to remember this when we are shopping for a new coach in the future. I for one, will not consider a Winnebago product in the future.
jt
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Why don't everyone avoid Winnebago when purchasing a new RV. That way not only will the employees loose Health Benefits, they will loose their jobs also.
__________________
Larry, Vickie, and Roscoe (pug)
2005 Holiday Rambler 36 PRT
2006 Chevy Malibu
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01-17-2017, 06:15 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Tiffin Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Byhalia, MS
Posts: 3,367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roscoesdad
Why don't everyone avoid Winnebago when purchasing a new RV. That way not only will the employees loose Health Benefits, they will loose their jobs also.
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I for one will not reward a company with my business that operates in an underhanded manner. These retirees were promised certain benefits at the time they retired. Then, the company decides to change the rules of the game after the game starts. I call BS on that!
I have no problem with a company changing the rules regarding retirement with active employees, but not after someone retires. It would be akin to the company changing your pay at will. One day you come to work and your boss tells you there has been a change and the company has decided to cut your pay in half. I don't think so. Its just not right.
jt
__________________
2019 Tiffin Phaeton 40IH
2005 Newmar Kountry Star Gas (Sold)
2022 JL Wrangler 4xe or 2017 Harley Ultra in tow
JT, Em & the boys, Kong & Baxter (rescued grey tabbies)
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01-17-2017, 06:48 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyjt
I for one will not reward a company with my business that operates in an underhanded manner. These retirees were promised certain benefits at the time they retired. Then, the company decides to change the rules of the game after the game starts. I call BS on that!
I have no problem with a company changing the rules regarding retirement with active employees, but not after someone retires. It would be akin to the company changing your pay at will. One day you come to work and your boss tells you there has been a change and the company has decided to cut your pay in half. I don't think so. Its just not right.
jt
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So let's just go bankrupt the Co. and see how that helps the retirees along with the current employees.
__________________
Larry, Vickie, and Roscoe (pug)
2005 Holiday Rambler 36 PRT
2006 Chevy Malibu
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01-17-2017, 07:25 PM
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#33
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Community Administrator
Pond Piggies Club LA Gulf Coast Campers Outdoors RV Owners Club Entegra Owners Club Skyline Owners Group
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 40,590
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Careful! It's getting a little heated & trending towards personal attacks which are against site rules. Please watch the tone of your posts.
Lori-
__________________
Lori (& Dave, my spirit guide) - RV/MH Hall of Fame Lifetime Member | My iRV2 Photo Albums
2016 Phoenix Cruiser 2350S, 2018 Phaeton 40IH,2006 Bounder 36Z, 2004 Cougar 285EFS, 2000 Aerolite 25FBR
There is great need for a sarcasm font.
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01-17-2017, 08:27 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyjt
I for one will not reward a company with my business that operates in an underhanded manner. These retirees were promised certain benefits at the time they retired. Then, the company decides to change the rules of the game after the game starts. I call BS on that!
I have no problem with a company changing the rules regarding retirement with active employees, but not after someone retires. It would be akin to the company changing your pay at will. One day you come to work and your boss tells you there has been a change and the company has decided to cut your pay in half. I don't think so. Its just not right.
jt
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I understand and appreciate your sentiments, harleyjt. But you have to keep in mind that Winnebago did NOT " promise certain benefits."
I'll repeat Sam Jefson, Winnebago Industries’ public relations specialist's explanation:
"Employees were notified that post-retiree benefits were conditional and subject to change,” said Jefson. “The Retiree Plan Policy has said the plan could be ‘amended, modified or discontinued at any time.’ When retiring, each person was notified about this in writing, and each year thereafter, also in written form.”
Winnebago Explains Plan to End Retiree Benefits
It seems to me that Winnebago took all steps to make it clear to their employees that the health care benefits were NOT promised and they took steps to put it in writing each year.
And again, Winnebago isn't the first company to do this. It's been going on for decades.
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01-17-2017, 09:08 PM
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#35
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"Formerly Diplomat Don"
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Moorpark, Ca.
Posts: 23,922
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I'm thinking that we would really have to hear all sides of the story. Is Winnebago doing it so they can increase management's salaries and bonuses or doing it to save the company. In past two years, RV sales have been booming. I don't know if we'll ever hear the complete story.
Maybe some of the more financial types on here can see what sales and profits have been for Winnebago and let us know what's going on with the company's bottom line.
__________________
Don & Mary
2019 Newmar Dutch Star 4018 (Freightliner)
2019 Ford Raptor
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01-18-2017, 05:26 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyjt
An article in the Jan 16 edition of RV Pro is titled "Winnebago to End Post-Retirement Health Benefits." Sad that all their current retirees under 65 will no longer receive these benefits. They are simply being discontinued. Pretty sad that a company would pull something like this on their existing retirees. I could understand not offering benefits going forward to new retirees, but these people retired and were promised certain benefits. Now Winnebago is reneging on that promise. All of us retirees need to remember this when we are shopping for a new coach in the future. I for one, will not consider a Winnebago product in the future.
jt
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What exactly do you suggest that Winnebago do and how should they pay for it?
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01-18-2017, 11:28 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don
I'm thinking that we would really have to hear all sides of the story. Is Winnebago doing it so they can increase management's salaries and bonuses or doing it to save the company. In past two years, RV sales have been booming. I don't know if we'll ever hear the complete story.
Maybe some of the more financial types on here can see what sales and profits have been for Winnebago and let us know what's going on with the company's bottom line.
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The debatable aspect of what responsibility a corporation has to its shareholders still boils down to the duty of ultimately providing value to its stockholders.
Winnebago Industries is a publicly held company (trades as WGO on the NYSE). Consequently, the bottom line is that managers have the fiduciary duty to act in order to promote the value of the corporation for the benefit of those stockholders.
The case that immediately comes to mind from back in my college days is Dodge v Ford Motor Company from 1919. Wiki summary from HERE:
"170 NW 668 (Mich 1919) is a case in which the Michigan Supreme Court held that Henry Ford had to operate the Ford Motor Company in the interests of its shareholders, rather than in a charitable manner for the benefit of his employees or customers."
Reneging on this so-called "promise" to provide health care benefits to retirees was done with great thought and planning on Winnebago‘s part. It wasn't done on a whim. There was plenty of legal minutia going on behind the scenes and it appears that Winnebago had their bases covered when making this decision.
Again, Winnebago isn't the first to do this. It's been going on for decades (as cited in earlier posts) with dozens of companies doing the same under the identical circumstances. There never was a contractual "promise" to provide these benefits. There always seems to exist this "fine print" (as mentioned previous posts) to allow the companies to stop these benefits.
If one decides to boycott Winnebago for doing what is their legal right to do and what essentially is their responsibility to their shareholders, then plan on boycotting dozens of other companies too.
If I were a Winnebago retiree would I be upset? Certainly. However, I can also see the larger picture. BTW, I've been a union member for all my working life and have fought for the rights of my fellow workers through the years. Sometimes, there's not much you can do. Although at times it doesn't seem "right," businesses are forced to do things as a responsibility to their stockholders or even to stay in business as with smaller privately-owned businesses.
This is all just my own opinion. I know many disagree. I’ll shut up now.
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01-18-2017, 11:43 AM
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#38
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 10
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Thankful for living in Canada
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01-18-2017, 01:32 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Damon Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,024
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I remember years ago.. I was reading an article in a Union Magazine and it mentioned a Tall, Distinguished looking, Well spoken, Black Man who stood up and said "That's me you are talking about" (or words to that effect)
They were talking about a letter Chrysler had just sent retirees.. That same letter, cutting off health care benefits.
The man was the Head Usher where I went to Church (Tom) and a good friend.. I confirmed it with him the following Sunday. Just so you know how close it hit.
I am a bit worried about that myself since my benefits are by contract with the State, and the state is .. Well Not "Worker friendly" just now.
There was a bill introduced into Michigan Legislature to protect retiree benefits, basically it said, as I have said in official meetings, "A contract is a Contract" and then it went on to say "And you will honor the contract you have with your retired workers or else"
The bill, Of course, Failed.
__________________
Home is where I park it!
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01-19-2017, 08:48 AM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 337
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We had health insurance through the company from age 21 while working and in retirement till age 75. And then had to start anew. Beware. Get the best Medigap insurance you can get when you are Medicare. They have to let you do that when you first go on but later if you want a better one they look at pre existing conditions and hard to get a better policy. Not like Obama care they don't have to take you if you want better coverage
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01-25-2017, 07:40 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Huntsville, AL/Helen, GA
Posts: 1,555
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I worked 24 years for one of the big auto manufacturers. Our healthcare was top of the line with $5 per physician deductible and $2 medicine. That's a thing of the past. Then they sold my division to another auto company.
Everyone 55 and older was "retired" in 2008--when the company overreacted to economic times. I was 58 1/2 years old.
We were allowed to spend $420 per month for my healthcare and my wife's Medicare Supplement, and that rate was being subvened by the company at a big loss.
Fortunately, we'd been plowing money into a Retiree Health Savings Account that worked about like a 401K. It paid all but 2 months of our healthcare expenses until I got Medicare at age 65.
Unfortunately, healthcare expenses have continued to increase far faster than inflation. And the ACA coverage and especially deductibles have been so high that the common man is essentially without affordable coverages.
Winnebego just bought Grand Design, and I assume it'll affect their employees too. I don't know about Winnebego wages, but those working at Grand Design are being paid very well. But since the company's only 4 years old, it's going to be a long, long time until they have any retirees.
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01-25-2017, 08:03 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 14,885
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It appears some think the benefits were promised while others have shown the benefit was conditional. If it is conditional that means it can be amended (changed) to the extend where it is no longer available.
Sad for sure however the employees may be about the change they have to be thankful for the amount of time that WGO actually paid for the benefit.
There is a business model that all successful businesses must follow to remain in business. You have to make more money than you spend or you go out of business. There are exceptions of course as government is not a business (that may change) and certain companies have been receivers of government largess in the form of bailouts and tax breaks.
While sad I think that most of us have no inside knowledge of what precipitated this move from WGO so really are unqualified to render and judgement about how they run their business.
__________________
Gordon and Janet
Tour 42QD/InTech Stacker
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