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Old 12-18-2011, 09:35 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
... BADH ...
Looks to me that he's trying to apply a precordial thump!
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:44 PM   #170
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And a big KUDO from us, enough said.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:33 AM   #171
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:57 AM   #172
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Right on! THANKS for this change.
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:12 AM   #173
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one more time :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NLOVNIT View Post
Many of those old threads did have good information that, unfortunately now are no longer allowed to be discussed under our current rules.

Lori-
Lori stated the exact reason BudtheDiplomat's comment is right on 'target' (pun intended).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BudtheDiplomat View Post
[Moderator Edit]

Open threads invite response, and yes, even facilitate response. It is only through that facility that forums survive.

I respectfully request that the rules be again reviewed. While guns, religion, etc. are not RV specific, they are just as integral to camping/rv'ing as toilets and refrigerators. I say a prayer for safe travels and might carry something to ensure its success.

It would seem that our collective desire would be to limit sarcasm, angry responses, and help direct posters toward NON-flaming responses, but not to limit topics. After all, there are forums "Just Conversation" for Non-RV topics.
Suggestion:
Make a TOPIC for 'guns and weapons' discussion and it not be allowed anywhere else. Each one of us will then have a choice to use that topic or not. I see 'off topic' notes on threads all the time, and if someone makes an 'oops', it cannot be too difficult to move a comment to a specific Topic and keep it out of the main stream of discussion.

I don't, eat, sleep, and talk, guns and weapons all the time, but who better to get our information on this VERY IMPORTANT subject from, than our friends on this forum. This is similar to what I've always told my children, 'ask me anything' and I'll give you the straight answer, and if I don't know the answer, lets find it together. Well here is the 'let's find it together source' or it was. The wrong information on the subject of 'guns and weapons' can lead to some serious troubles with Law Enforcement Officials. Wrong information of religion and politics just does not have the same consequences.

Please take another look at this restriction, and explore some way to allow civil discussion on this topic. Try it for a couple of months, and if it is found to not to be of any benefit or too much 'flaming' then you can say 'we tried and we were right', 'these discussions just cannot remain civil', and shut it down! BUT, . . . if it works out, what a great source of information. I would be willing to offer to moderate on such a topic, but I don't think I know enough about technical side of things to do it.
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:55 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RinkersRanch View Post
Lori stated the exact reason BudtheDiplomat's comment is right on 'target' (pun intended).



Suggestion:
Make a TOPIC for 'guns and weapons' discussion and it not be allowed anywhere else. Each one of us will then have a choice to use that topic or not. I see 'off topic' notes on threads all the time, and if someone makes an 'oops', it cannot be too difficult to move a comment to a specific Topic and keep it out of the main stream of discussion.

I don't, eat, sleep, and talk, guns and weapons all the time, but who better to get our information on this VERY IMPORTANT subject from, than our friends on this forum. This is similar to what I've always told my children, 'ask me anything' and I'll give you the straight answer, and if I don't know the answer, lets find it together. Well here is the 'let's find it together source' or it was. The wrong information on the subject of 'guns and weapons' can lead to some serious troubles with Law Enforcement Officials. Wrong information of religion and politics just does not have the same consequences.

Please take another look at this restriction, and explore some way to allow civil discussion on this topic. Try it for a couple of months, and if it is found to not to be of any benefit or too much 'flaming' then you can say 'we tried and we were right', 'these discussions just cannot remain civil', and shut it down! BUT, . . . if it works out, what a great source of information. I would be willing to offer to moderate on such a topic, but I don't think I know enough about technical side of things to do it.
I agree,,, There was some pretty important information passed through those topics and I don't think because of a certain few it should be disallowed as long as they stayed civil.
Being a moderator for many years on another site i\I never had a problem closing something down that had gotten out of hand, and I never had a problem going after the offenders, but to close down something totaly, only as an extreme measure would I ever do that.
For those that don't like the discussion all they have to do is stay out of it,they've always had that option.

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Old 02-09-2012, 11:23 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RinkersRanch View Post
Lori stated the exact reason BudtheDiplomat's comment is right on 'target' (pun intended).



Suggestion:
Make a TOPIC for 'guns and weapons' discussion and it not be allowed anywhere else. Each one of us will then have a choice to use that topic or not. I see 'off topic' notes on threads all the time, and if someone makes an 'oops', it cannot be too difficult to move a comment to a specific Topic and keep it out of the main stream of discussion.

I don't, eat, sleep, and talk, guns and weapons all the time, but who better to get our information on this VERY IMPORTANT subject from, than our friends on this forum. This is similar to what I've always told my children, 'ask me anything' and I'll give you the straight answer, and if I don't know the answer, lets find it together. Well here is the 'let's find it together source' or it was. The wrong information on the subject of 'guns and weapons' can lead to some serious troubles with Law Enforcement Officials. Wrong information of religion and politics just does not have the same consequences.

Please take another look at this restriction, and explore some way to allow civil discussion on this topic. Try it for a couple of months, and if it is found to not to be of any benefit or too much 'flaming' then you can say 'we tried and we were right', 'these discussions just cannot remain civil', and shut it down! BUT, . . . if it works out, what a great source of information. I would be willing to offer to moderate on such a topic, but I don't think I know enough about technical side of things to do it.
I've made my views known on this topic before. RinkersRanch has it dead on, and I agree 100% with him. These topics are relevant and important to the RV lifestyle. I would like to second his request for a specific area for these topics to be discussed.

Though I would encourage everyone to participate in CIVIL and RESPECTFUL discussion of these topics, members that are bothered by them can always use the forum tools to "Ignore" the forum entirely.

Not sure if vBulletin allows it, but you could make it an "OPT-IN" forum, that members would have to specifically JOIN to be able to see.

These topics affect ALL RVers, and should not be banned from discussion here, IMHO.
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Old 02-09-2012, 12:23 PM   #176
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Sometime ago and in response to member concerns we took a third look at this issue and there has been a revision but only a tiny one

This:
General discussions of politics, general government policies, weaponry, gun rights and religion are not allowed in ANY areas of iRV2. Discussions about specific or pending legislation or regulations that directly pertain to RVing are acceptable but will be closed or removed if they become disruptive.
Has been changed to this (blue text added):
General discussions of politics, general government policies, weaponry, gun rights and religion are not allowed in ANY areas of iRV2. Discussions aboutcurrent or pending legislation or regulations, weapons and religion that directly pertain to RVing are acceptable but will be closed or removed if they wander off topic or become disruptive.
Basically this means that some limited weapons and religion discussions are acceptable but they will be watched closely and closed quickly when they wander. Note that political discussions are still off limits. The big issue here is that we each have a different understanding of what factual, on-topic, non-political, non-offensive posting looks like. This gray area extends to the site team and is the reason that we sometimes close these threads for a time while we sort things out. So what is acceptable? You can take your queue from this line in the rules:

Quote:
(discussions)..... that directly pertain to RVing are acceptable but will be closed or removed if they wander off topic or become disruptive.
Here are some examples of responses to a reasonable first post on a gun topic, typical of those we have seen over the years and a good guess at how we would view them now.

New Thread: Where do store your weapon while traveling with RV?

Q: I am wondering where you all store your weapons while on the road?
Answer 1: I usually keep it in the locker under the couch just inside the door (acceptable)
Answer 2: I don't share that info (acceptable)
Answer 3: I always travel with two guns. A hand gun (personal carry) and something a bit BIGGER (acceptable but beginning to wander .... )
Answer 4: Just don't carry it into Canada (maybe acceptable)
Answer 5: Well so far I haven't had an issue.... what they don't know won't hurt em (maybe acceptable - certainly stupid)
Answer 6: Socialists never were too smart .... (not acceptable)
Answer 7: I always pack. There are a lot of wackos and nutjobs out there - you just never know (not acceptable)

IN this example answers 5, 6 and 7 are way off topic for the original post asking a specific question. Some of those are also political. Post 3 has opened the door in this thread for personal comment AND doesn't actually address the initial post either.

This example is typical of gun discussions and the reason they become problem threads so quickly. This is further exacerbated by a few members who DELIGHT in pushing limits to the detriment of the entire community. For those few folks we have this looong definition of trolling (which is not allowed); this is the 'don't stir the pot' rule.
Quote:
Trolling on this board includes posting controversial and often irrelevant or off-topic messages with the intention of (or anticipated result of) baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal, harmonious on-topic discussion, especially when a pattern of such posting is apparent.
When this thread was initially posted there were in short order several new threads put up on gun topics - each one pushed the limits, testing the boundaries and I predict there will now be more. Religious and political topics are similarly restricted and must be directly related to RV'ing.

Some more examples:

Threads like these might be allowed (but tightly watched):
Which model would make a better mobile chapel?
Where to store shotgun in pop-up camper?
Threads like this would not be allowed:
Preaching at a state park?
Do you carry?
Simply dropping the term 'RV' into a sentence is not enough to make it RV related. For instance:
Poll: Blue vs. Red. Who owns what brands of RV? (not allowed)
Do you pray (in your RV)?
Candidates Rolling Tours and the RV's they use.
It would be great if folks could discuss these hot button topics without taking swipes at some other person, belief system or value set, but sadly, this is not the case. We all RV but we don't all share the same values. In order to have a vibrant RV-centered discussion board we need to set aside those differences and focus on the thing we have in common - RV'ing.

For this reason we have placed limits on these topics and ask you to respect the rules of the road here at iRV2.
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Old 02-09-2012, 12:40 PM   #177
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Well stated.
I have maintained for several years that the one biggest problem with this world is the "I'm Right and You are Wrong" attitude. We all tend to not be able/willing to respect other people's right to believe something different. This not only applies to individual people but to countries, religions, politics etc, etc,etc. (all driven by people)
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:21 PM   #178
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I left this forum for a year, because of what I experienced as the heavy hand of censorship. I'm tip-toeing back in, giving it another go, as I have come to accept a minimal level of it in order for the community to function better as a group. If it doesn't work for me, I'll just wander off again....

I fully understand that there are threads that can be powderkegs, and I've been in a few over the years, and I can understand ruling out certain 'hot' topics that are UNRELATED to the RV lifestyle..... That makes sense. But, when it comes to topics that are relevant, likes issues related to weapons on the road and self-defense, why isn't it enough for all you mods to warn 'out of bounds' posters, delete posts that are offensive, and even 'uninvite' some members if that's what it takes.... BUT, outlawing entire topics? Deleting whole threads? Relevant threads? Personally, I don't think that's a great solution.

I have "self-protective items" in my MH, and am frequently interested in the experiences and practices of other members on all kinds of topics, including self-defense. That's why I am here! But, I guess I'm not in favor of the current approach; having said that, I intend to respect the site rules, however grudgingly, and will agree not to contribute to inflamed threads. As I've said before, censorship in America is a slippery slope. My 2 cents. Of course, if any of you mods think my comments here are inappropriate, just let me know, and I'll be happy to leave you to it.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:55 PM   #179
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Unfortunately there are not enough moderators to go around and take care of errant posts that cause damage to the member on member relationship.

Once something is posted and read it's a done deal and can not be taken back or ignored by mere moderation.

Quote:
why isn't it enough for all you mods to warn 'out of bounds' posters, delete posts that are offensive, and even 'uninvite' some members if that's what it takes....
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:02 PM   #180
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It is people with different points of view that make a thread interesting and educational. I have had my point of view changed completely by forum posts I have read. We're all adults here, we can discuss controversial topics in a civil manner. It is differing opinions that make forums valuable. How boring would it be if everyone agreed on everything?

TOPIC: Where do you keep your gun in your RV?

1: Behind my toilet.
2: Me too.
3: Count me in, toilet's a great place!
4: I keep mine under the cat, but I like your toilet idea!
5: Under the cat's a good place too!
6: I was thinking of putting mine in the fridge. Is that too offensive?
7: No! Fridge is fine too! Put the cat in the fridge with it! [moderator: off topic, can't offend the cat lovers!]
8: My fridge is under my cat, and my gun is in it. (in the fridge, not in the cat)
9: Why do you need a gun in an rv? [moderator: Post deleted, too troll-like]
10: I keep mine IN the toilet, is this OK?
11: In the toilet works, as long as the cat is ON the toilet at least 50% of the time, and you use RID-X once a month.
12: If the cat's inside, the gun should be outside, and vice-versa (unless the gun's inside the cat... or vice-versa).
13: :grouphug:
[moderator: OP's question answered, topic closed]

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Old 02-09-2012, 11:41 PM   #181
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:17 PM   #182
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Great change Ö. Now we have a place away from the circus in the political world to just talk about RVís trips, problems and changes
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