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Old 12-27-2010, 06:28 PM   #29
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Even leaving the "man made" component of the discussion out of it for a moment, my contention is that our actions should be the same either way. We simply can't keep burning fosil fuels at the rate we are and leave all of the negative impacts that entails to our kids. Even if it has zero impact on our climate, the transfer of wealth can't be sustained.

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Old 12-27-2010, 06:36 PM   #30
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Global warming has progress to Climate Change. Both side agree there is climate change, the disagreement stems from the assertion that it is man made phenomenon . The scientist say it is the sinusoidal, sinus rhythm, yin and yang that is natural in nature. The politicians say it's about saving the polar bears and preventing the arctic ice and glaciers from melting but if you listen really good, it's about carbon credits and the redistribution of wealth.
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Old 12-27-2010, 06:41 PM   #31
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Folks, we're getting off topic in some posts and into some political rants that have very little to do with the discussion at hand.

Let's stay away from that type of stuff.

Thanks!
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Old 12-27-2010, 06:46 PM   #32
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Any relation between fossil fuel usage and global warming will become pretty moot within the next few decades as supplies dwindle and become used by only the influential and wealthy - and what will the politicians and others who are making $$$ off the various climate related legislation do next?

First the political climatologists said the few parts of the globe that registered a few degrees higher were "proof" of global warming - but next, most places started registering LOWER temps - and those same "experts" STILL say that's proof of global warming!

A true no-win situation for those challenging the notion of global warming...

So, if warmer average temps are "proof" of global warming - and COOLER temps do too, WHAT is "proof" of global COOLING?

For sure, take away the $$$ angle that benefits the politicians and industries benefiting from all the climate and EPA mandates - and the global warming/climate change debate would evaporate overnight!
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:24 PM   #33
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Factor in the scandal at the pre eminent source for all this nonsense-man made climate change, and its enough to make you crazy; especially knowing that we (the US) has under our own territory 200-300 years of crude to sustain the current usage, heck, just one small part of the planet, the shale region of PA has 200 years worth of natural gas.

chief, sadly the warm up did not come soon enough, we are on the road again-left Surfside Beach this pm. AND, not only are we going to miss the mild temps but we just missed, by minutes, meeting betsy/tom at Hunting Beach State Park. A nice gentleman told us that the pictures do NOT do justice to just how bad that coach is, its not even close he said; so if anyone down that way spots a B+ with hummingbirds on the back and front-no manufacturers name at all, its them-how about a thumbs up or something to let them know word is out.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:48 PM   #34
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One of the things the "experts" are always hollering over is the CO2 in the air. I have a serious problem with that. Years ago while in elementary school I wanted to be a botanist and became heavily interested in plants. I had full range of our local libray and the librarians let me check out anything I wanted because they knew that I could read and understand what I was reading. So I engaged in my own botany classes (meaning I read/checked out every book on plants in the library). So I know that plants require CO2. I think we need to "green" up our towns and cities by planting more trees, shrubs, etc (not grass... requires too much chemicals & upkeep). Homes need to have raised bed gardens, not manicured lawns. Farms need to practice no till farming. Read the websites that I list the link to. Interesting reading.

Plants Need CO2 - First Page

http://www.co2science.org/
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:58 AM   #35
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Ricko, you're absolutely correct, I was saying it back in the early 70's, during the first "energy crisis" that we couldn't sustain the transfer of wealth that importing oil requires. Unfortunately the oil industry owns our government and continues to prevent any serious attempts at changing our energy sources over to something different than fossil fuels. Has anyone noticed that with the small recovery of the economy we are now experiencing that the cost of a gallon of gas has gone up to over $3 a gallon? We will be at $4 or $5 per gallon shortly as the economy continues to improve, and that is going to be a real problem for those on fixed incomes. IMHO instead of bailouts that you and I paid for the government should have created big tax credits to encourage everyone to switch over to more energy efficient products for their homes and more energy efficient vehicles and built the infrastructure to support the change over- such as electric and hydrogen recharging and fueling stations across the country which would open the door for the auto makers to make electric and hydrogen powered vehicles. Norway has already done this. We should too!
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:12 AM   #36
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Now, if only we had started the change in the 70s!!! As you described, we need a "Manhattan Project" type of effort and commitment. We're still sitting here wringing our hands while China is gearing up for solar equipment manufacture. If technology isn't a diferintiator for the US... and cheap labor isn't a diferintiator.... our products will continue to be unattractive and we'll continue to transfer money to OPEC and borrow money from China to pay our WalMart bills until it all comes tumbling down like the real estate market just did.

Seems to me that gaining energy independence and then maximizing farmland and converting ethanol crops to food crops so we could become the "OPEC for food". JMHO



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Old 12-28-2010, 10:37 AM   #37
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I'll tell you a story on how the Govt works. I used to be in commercial HVAC and after they did away with R12 referigerant, I recieved a service call at a workshop for the Blind and when I was there, I noticed 4 or 5 145lb drums of R12. I stated to the manager that it was worth a pretty penny because you can't get it anymore. He said he gets it all the time and that they were using it for paint propelant for the Air Force. The blind people put on the plain can labels after they manufactured the product. Found that kind of strange.

Whats good for the goose?
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Old 12-28-2010, 02:37 PM   #38
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I guess we had "Global Warming" after the last ice age too
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:24 PM   #39
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Without reading all of the thread...

Global Warming is suppose to cause the temps to drop and the earth to become cold as the oceans conveyor belt slows down..

Whether oil is 'old dinosaurs' is up to debate and is being challenged. Old oil wells that have been run dry are producing again..

Plate Tectonics tells us that millions of years ago that 'desert' was a forest or ocean...Also, every 10-20 thousands years, the Sahara becomes a tropical rain forest and back again...

No, I dont believe we are responsible.. least not more than minimal. Is is still out on whether it the warming is actually even real...Why? It was 'discovered' that something like 40-50 weather stations in the coldest parts of Russia were'nt included. Take out that many 'cold' readings and the temps seem to 'rise'...

The amount of misinformation and ignorance is staggering..On BOTH sides... please, please read and learn before making comments. Mostly why I dont get involved: most dont have a clue about thier own planets history, how it works, or why... but they are able to comment on the fact that we are destroying/not destroying it??? Hmm..
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:36 PM   #40
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Quote:
Global Warming is suppose to cause the temps to drop and the earth to become cold as the oceans conveyor belt slows down..
And HOW does that scenario match up with the wild Al Gore and follower's predictions of melted Arctic glaciers, rising oceans and submerged San Francisco and Los Angeles (no big loss, either of them...)?
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:38 PM   #41
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I'm with Gary, besides, at our age who cares.

Between this and gun control we're all going to get kicked out of here.
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:47 PM   #42
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If I believed in man made climate change, I sure wouldn't drive a vehicle that gets 8 - 10 MPG.

Just Saying.
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